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Message
re: Body cam footage of police interactions with Ahmaud Aubrey
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:37 pm to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:37 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Why isn't he being given the benefit of the doubt of self-defense instead of McMichael as a result?
Sadly, you know why.
0
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:39 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Why isn't he being given the benefit of the doubt of self-defense instead of McMichael as a result?
Silly you. Black people rarely get the benefit of any doubt in these situations.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:43 pm to Kujo
quote:
Kujo
This is embarrassing. Even for this place.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:49 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I conceded several posts ago that I think they did NOT set out to kill Arbery. I did say when you bring a loaded gun into a situation, you're okay with death being a potential outcome. And when you take the law into your own hands, and you kill someone in that process, it meets the definition of lynching.
I agree that they created a situation and they're responsible for the outcome.
I disagree that it's lynching, either in the most neutral definitional sense (intentional killing for some offense without trial), or in the more racial/historical sense I think that you/the media intended (lawless killing of black people, sometimes under the guise of wrongdoing, sometimes not, and often with the claimed offense not rising to a crime even if true).
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:56 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I also don't understand how people are completely ignoring the fact that McMichael had to physically move to the front of the truck with gun in hand to intercept Arbury, as he was initially running around the truck to avoid them. It was a really quick second when Arbery came around to the front of the truck and then the first shot was fired.
We've had this conversation in depth on here before. I think it's more likely Arbery initiated the physical confrontation in front of the truck than vice versa. I think he tried to flank McMichael, and I think there is at least a decent argument it could be considered a move in self defense (by Arbery) considering McMichael appeared to level the gun at him before Arbery started his veer around the truck.
I think in a "what would you do" context it's fine and reasonable to talk about whether Arbery made a mistake here (as opposed to in a "was it murder" context).
Posted on 5/20/20 at 3:59 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
We've had this conversation in depth on here before. I think it's more likely Arbery initiated the physical confrontation in front of the truck than vice versa. I think he tried to flank McMichael, and I think there is at least a decent argument it could be considered a move in self defense (by Arbery) considering McMichael appeared to level the gun at him before Arbery started his veer around the truck.
I think in a "what would you do" context it's fine and reasonable to talk about whether Arbery made a mistake here (as opposed to in a "was it murder" context).
So you're going to come to this conclusion based on Arbery's motives over self-defense, but you can't rationalize that the McMichaels intended to do harm when they grabbed guns and continued to track him for several minutes throughout the neighborhood?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:00 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
It's also weird to me that people are like "POS good riddance" but nobody raises the point that the McMichaels are probably pretty useless to society.
It's called a win/ win. I can't believe there are people that actually think the world would be better if this didn't happen.
Just because the 2 red necks were wrong, doesn't mean some good didn't come out of it.
mRs. aBErY iZ wEaLThy!!
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:02 pm to Barstools
So some vague shoplifting video and looking at a construction site means he deserved to die?
I wonder how well your life would hold up to similar scrutiny
I wonder how well your life would hold up to similar scrutiny
This post was edited on 5/20/20 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:04 pm to Barstools
quote:
It's called a win/ win. I can't believe there are people that actually think the world would be better if this didn't happen.
Just because the 2 red necks were wrong, doesn't mean some good didn't come out of it.
mRs. aBErY iZ wEaLThy!!
What a piece of shite.
Of course it would be fricking better if someone wasn't killed in this situation. What is wrong with you?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:05 pm to El Magnifico
quote:
He wouldn't have been gunned down if he didn't charge and attack a person with a gun in there hands.
This is like saying it's a homeowner's fault for getting shot because he wouldn't have been gunned down if he didn't charge a guy burglarizing his home.
The McMichaels threatened force in a way they likely had no legal right to and in a way that was totally situationally avoidable. Arbery responded to that threat of force.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:05 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
So you're going to come to this conclusion based on Arbery's motives over self-defense, but you can't rationalize that the McMichaels intended to do harm when they grabbed guns and continued to track him for several minutes throughout the neighborhood?
Huh? I'm not sure what you're talking about or what point you're trying to score here.
I come to this conclusion (that Arbery made the move toward McMichael) by watching the video and 30+ years of seeing people move. I could be wrong, I just don't think I am. And I mentioned that the whole sequence (Arbery flanking McMichael) could have been a self-defense move because as Arbery approached it appears the younger McMichael went from merely holding a weapon to leveling it at Arbery immediately prior to him veering around the back of the truck.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:09 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Huh? I'm not sure what you're talking about or what point you're trying to score here.
So you said earlier in this thread that it's much more likely that McMichael didn't intend to kill Arbery. That they were just packing for the sake of packing and it was unlikely they intended to harm Arbery.
But then here you speak much more surely about McMichael being the one that could argue self-defense instead of Arbery. That Arbery was the one that "charged". They had been following him for several minutes, blocking him off, turning him around, etc. And we know the Dad in the bed of the truck was armed. Does that not give Arbery the right to self-defense when McMichael's moved towards the front of the truck with a firearm in hand?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:09 pm to Hot Carl
quote:Buttfricking stupid is actually yourself thinking he was an innocent "jogger"
I’m laughing at how buttfricking stupid you are.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:12 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
These have nothing to do with the shooting. Even if he was thug trash, he could still have been killed unjustifiably
No shite. But it does counter the early narrative that he was an upstanding young man that couldn't have drawn any reasonable suspicion of nefarious behavior except in the minds of bloodthirsty racists. It also speaks to his temperment and decision making.
The facts of the incident will decide the fate of the defendants in court but to pretend as if this isn't relevant to the broader cultural discussion and narrative spewing that ALWAYS surrounds these cases is being obtuse as frick.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:16 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I come to this conclusion (that Arbery made the move toward McMichael) by watching the video and 30+ years of seeing people move.
So why was McMichael out of the vehicle with a shotgun in his hand? Offering to give Arbery a ride, or directions to McDonald's?
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:17 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Of course it would be fricking better if someone wasn't killed in this situation. What is wrong with you?
You realize that puts 3 gangsters back in the streets, right?
Until the thug POS murdered an innocent person and inevitably lands in prison with his older brother.
I'll say it again, the world is better off without dead thug.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:18 pm to Barstools
This has got to be a troll
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:19 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
it does counter the early narrative that he was an upstanding young man that couldn't have drawn any reasonable suspicion of nefarious behavior except in the minds of bloodthirsty racists. It also speaks to his temperment and decision making.
I still don't see a point.
There's a better point about a person's past being relevant when the entire event isn't videotaped.
You don't have to use his past to infer what he did at the house under construction. There's video.
You don't have to use it to infer how he responded to the McMichaels. Again, there's video.
Prior incidents mean more when you can't see the incident unfold and you have to weigh competing stories. Also, there's no evidence the McMichaels knew about either of these prior incidents, so I don't see it could influence how suspicious they found Arbery.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:19 pm to Barstools
quote:
Barstools
It should have been you.
Posted on 5/20/20 at 4:20 pm to Kujo
quote:You and IHateToThinkIDidnt
Kujo
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