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re: Bill Ackman: Government has 24 hours to fix Silicon Valley Bank debacle

Posted on 3/12/23 at 3:54 pm to
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
102711 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

If you want to send a mesage you sent the high up white collar perps to some place like Angola for a decade at least.


Were any actual crimes committed? Or was it just bad luck/poor decision making on the banks part combined with depositors being stupid enough to put all their eggs in one basket?

Everything would have been fine if VCs didn’t panic and start a run on the bank. Had the bank not put so much into bonds at low interest rates they wouldn’t have had to sell at such a loss. They weren’t diversified enough into other industries and their investment portfolio obviously wasn’t diversified enough. I’m not sure why they thought buying bonds with interest rates near zero was a good idea knowing interest rates had to go up at some point. Seems like a lot of stupid but not sure it was anything criminal
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
25893 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 3:57 pm to
frick Bill Ackman.
Posted by DeCat ODahouse
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2017
1675 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

It isn’t like Roku was investing in speculative trades,



And yet they were. Literally anything above 250k in a bank is a speculative trade, however poorly rewarded, i.e. mere bank interest rates for return on risk.

The insured amount is widely broadcast to the point where even the average depositor should be well aware of the number.

Why are we even thinking about bailing out a company that chose stewards of 500 million cash who apparently didn't bother to take this into account?
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
41087 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

DeCat ODahouse


So if you were CFO at Roku, you'd be keeping track of accounts at literally thousands of banks across the country?
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
89772 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:20 pm to
No, people have to fail.

You know what’s equity? The government not picking and choosing who gets saved.

Posted by Stiles
Member since Sep 2017
3458 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Bill Ackman: Government has 24 hours to fix Silicon Valley Bank debacle

Oh hell yeah, this signals that we’re not far from my favorite part. Where CEOs and the corporate elite try to explain to politicians and Joe public that bailouts aren’t socialism if it’s used to “save” capitalism.
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
89772 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

Finance 101 (1980's to current) - "greed is good" era Net profits (after taxes and expenses) 95% to top management only 5% to everybody else Stopped paying dividends Stopped investing in windows greater than 6 months



Yeah I need you to show this is true.

I still get dividends regularly. But admittedly I don’t know everyone’s salaries at some of these companies, but 95% to management can’t be accurate.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
62241 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:28 pm to
They have what are called rollovers and they can be fairly automated. So yes your free cash is in many accounts at any given time. Bigger point is why do you have 500 million in cash unless you are leveraging it up in high risk / high returns like in 2008.

Say taking that 500 million and levering it up to 5 billion to make even bigger profits. Did you miss derivatives in 2008? I could take less risk taking the 500 million to a casino in Vegas.
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14970 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:29 pm to
The problem was when VC’s that used SVB and the startup companies that used SVB stopped lending VC and depositing capital at appropriate levels for SVB to operate, their normal MO was to sell other other, traditional investments to help cover their capital calls. Which were typically covered by the steady influx of VC cash into the new startups accounts which as we said were tapering off due to the economic headwinds in tech.

The traditional investments they had on the books were problematic. Not that they were bad investments. Just that the current rates of returns for customers on the street to purchase those investments are higher than when SVB purchased them.

Meaning that only were they a lower rate of return than what anyone can get on the street today, but when you sell them, you take a bath on the sale price because of it. So what you bought yesterday as a traditional hedge against your risk is now an insufficient hedge and-in a twist of fate-a risk in and of itself in a sense.

Meaning that SVB was going to take a bath no matter what due to their main business plan or approach, their lack of diversification from it and then…once larger players in tech got wind of it…the run was on.

I don’t think that a full depositor bailout should happen IMO. The depositors are not at fault. People can’t make payroll right now. This is a huge problem.

But this should force others to diversify their approach. Whether in the finance or banking space or as businesses who are overly reliant and aren’t account balancing as a hedge risk.

I think the market should self correct. If we see a larger run on regional institutions, then a market intervention is called for. We do not need banking consolidation and that’s what we should look for.

But I’m not a fan of knee jerk reactions in the markets. Take the medicine. Swallow the bitter pill.

This post was edited on 3/12/23 at 4:41 pm
Posted by supadave3
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2005
32170 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

but 95% to management can’t be accurate.


Uh, I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Change 95% to ‘way too much’ and you’ll properly comprehend the point of his statement.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
62241 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

I still get dividends regularly.


In old school companies like P&G but since the 80's many new companies don't pay dividends or pay such paltry ones it is an embarrassment.

Look, investing is not rocket science

You buy growth for appreciation and expect no dividends (but get stock splits)
You buy big companies for some appreciation but dividends (say 3% - 5% for income)


Problem started in the 80's when companies that were no longer fast growers decided to pay executives stock options instead of paying investors dividends.


Look at what a single firm (Goldman Sachs) paid in year end bonuses in 2008. Greed at is most visible and it just seems to get worse. If you say worked a basic job at AT&T in the 50's and got some shares here and there. When you retired you had stock equity 30 years later but the real benefit was the quarterly dividends that did not make you rich but helped with the expenses like food and utilities after you retired till your dead.


AIG was a classic example. As a growth stock they would double and split about every year or two. Then they got pretty big and the growth numbers were no longer sustainable and they should have accepted their place as a big steady Eddie and start doling out that extra cash as dividends. Instead they started paying the top execs in Stock options and the numbers were pretty big. When it was sitting in the mid 70's I sold and paid the capital gains tax and walked away. Told others to do the same but they hung on. 2 years later the stock tanked to under 5 bucks. Greed took that company down more than any bad decision made in their core business.
Posted by DeCat ODahouse
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2017
1675 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

So if you were CFO at Roku, you'd be keeping track of accounts at literally thousands of banks across the country?


If Roku needs to have 500 million cash on hand in a regular bank account, maybe their CFO should be camped out in the bank lobby.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
62241 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 4:50 pm to
I think it is simpler

There is a reason after the Great Depression many laws were put in place (aided by the crooks who caused it as they had made their lifetime loot) and one that separated 3 parts of finance

Investment Banks - Wall Street lenders
Retail Banks - Main Street lenders
Insurance Companies - some national and some state

Problem is since 1980 they have been taking the teeth out of these old laws and it means folks take excessive risk for greater returns. They thing they are brilliant and it is the average citizen that gets stuck with the bill when they get it wrong.
Posted by TomJoadGhost
Alabama
Member since Nov 2022
1003 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:01 pm to
Yeah, pretty sure I read that there were only a couple of bank failures between the end of the Great Depression and the early 80’s, while there have been hundreds since then.
Posted by NorCali
Member since Feb 2015
1732 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:25 pm to
I will give you a specific. In May of last year, I bought a 2 year treasure at 2.5%. If I hold it to maturity, I will not lose any principal and I will collect the 4 every 6 month interest payments. However, if I needed my cash now, I could sell it, but the current market value is at 2.86% below what I paid for it, so I would lose a piece of my principal and not get 3 interest payments I was due.
So this is where the regulations that require the banks to have a certain amount of cash are causing a problem. If they could sit on these until maturity, they don't take a loss. But because they have to have cash/liquidity, they have to sell assets and take a real lose.
Posted by Pax Regis
Alabama
Member since Sep 2007
15274 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:43 pm to
frick ‘em. Maybe if this implodes it will help reset the ridiculous Silicon Valley/San Francisco economy.
Posted by lake chuck fan
Vinton
Member since Aug 2011
23781 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:48 pm to











Why does our money (government dollars) always have to bail out these rich crooks (banks)for their bad decisions?

What happens to you or I if we lose money from bad decisions?

The rich crooks in charge should not have a penny left to their name, let them use all their money to fix their mistakes before reaching for our tax dollars.
frick that

Posted by Tvilletiger
PVB
Member since Oct 2015
5996 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:48 pm to
We don’t want that.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
37538 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 5:49 pm to
Or, it could be that the payroll account is there... which I admit could be problematic come Wednesday.
Posted by SneezyBeltranIsHere
Member since Jul 2021
4303 posts
Posted on 3/12/23 at 6:04 pm to
I agree. This this bailout is pure evil. We need a free market system with consequences. We are the only country in the world that focuses its socialistic activities on the wealthiest of its citizens. Also, don't kid yourself. Both major political parties are screwing you.
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