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Message
re: Baldwin charged again
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:09 pm to Saint Alfonzo
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:09 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
Did they also tell him to point a loaded weapon at the cinematographer and pull the trigger?
They specifically told him it was a harmless prop not a loaded weapon. There were two people, the armorer and assistant director, who were supposed to make sure there was no chance the gun could fire a live round.
4
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:12 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:14 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
quote:
They specifically told him it was a harmless prop not a loaded weapon. There were two people, the armorer and assistant director, who were supposed to make sure there was no chance the gun could fire a live round.
Link to this?
Baldwin continually claims he didn’t pull the trigger, why would he be worried if there was a live round if he didn’t pull the trigger? Why would he state it was cleared, if he didn’t pull the trigger?
From all accounts I’ve seen, the gun was never cleared.
From a People article:
According to a statement of probable cause filed in the First Judicial Court in New Mexico, Baldwin didn’t receive required firearms training; did not ask Gutierrez-Reed to show him that the gun contained no live rounds; ignored safety complaints from crew members; and put his finger “on the trigger of a real firearm when a replica or rubber gun should have been used.”
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:15 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
quote:
They specifically told him it was a harmless prop not a loaded weapon. There were two people, the armorer and assistant director, who were supposed to make sure there was no chance the gun could fire a live round.
A real gun isn't a "prop." Again, who told him to point a real gun at the cinematographer and then pull the trigger?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:16 pm to baldona
quote:I agree with that... it's part of what we expect from Hollywood.
What's not understood, is the gun being loaded is only one part of the issue here.
Yes, conceivably Baldwin is not guilty for that.
I remember Dirty Harry, and learned that S&W gave Clint the Model 29 he used in that role. It wasn't a fake, it was a real revolver.
quote:Yeah... Baldwin the producer.
But the gun was NEVER supposed to be fired AT someone. Baldwin did that, and that's the issue.
You're not supposed to point directly at a person, or a cameraman either (it's supposed to be remote-operated).
I think she, as the cinematographer, was trying to frame up the best possible visual angle, and cut safety corners to do so. It was a low budget production, it would have cost money to stage that scene multiple times, to see precisely where you want the camera; or she could stand there, and move around (squat, rise up etc) to see exactly where you wanted it to be.
quote:Another huge sin, based on saving money. I think they were using the owner of the ranch where they filmed, his private collection of guns.
Then to compound that, he hired a shite company to save money to be the armorer and allowed multiple other events to happen that led to the gun being left loaded with a live round.
The "proper" way would be to contract out with a props company, but that would have involved paying them.
quote:He shot at his mark, there happened to be someone in the line of fire. And it turned out to be a loaded gun.
Then he pulled the trigger and shot AT someone.
But I will bet you anything, 99% of this goes on at almost every low budget action or western flick, in the name of saving money (more money you, including cast and crew, get to keep). People keep their mouths shut about violations, in order to make a dollar.
The one difference was the gun having live rounds this time. I'm still curious about that, wondering if someone was setting him up. Maybe the intent to expose what a shitty production he was running and get him fined, and it became worst-case scenario.
Has Jensen Ackles ever spoken up about this? He was in the cast.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:20 pm to Scoob
quote:
He shot at his mark, there happened to be someone in the line of fire. And it turned out to be a loaded gun.
He did not shoot at a mark, he deliberately pointed the gun at cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and pulled the trigger.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:24 pm to Scoob
quote:
He shot at his mark, there happened to be someone in the line of fire. And it turned out to be a loaded gun. But I will bet you anything, 99% of this goes on at almost every low budget action or western flick, in the name of saving money (more money you, including cast and crew, get to keep). People keep their mouths shut about violations, in order to make a dollar.
Again. Baldwin claims over and over and over, he never pulled the trigger.
He is not claiming the gun was supposed to be a blank and he shot at someone with a blank.
Baldwin claims the gun just went off. He swears he never pulls the trigger.
Respectfully, you guys are pulling shite out of your arse.
You may be right and it’s all a coverup so far, but literally no one I’ve seen says that Baldwin was rehearsing and supposed to be blanks. He simply
Claims the gun went off unexpectedly.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:28 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:So can you post the details on this?quote:
He shot at his mark, there happened to be someone in the line of fire. And it turned out to be a loaded gun.
He did not shoot at a mark, he deliberately pointed the gun at cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and pulled the trigger.
Because my understanding is that they were rehearsing, and that a portion of the set was to be clear of people (he was to point at that area). But that she went over there to better lay eyes on things. Like I said, it's a quick way to determine the best camera angle, instead of moving the camera after a take a bunch of times.
As I recall, the bullet went through a monitor, and she was hit in the chest on the other side of the monitor.
I've never heard that he drew and shot at the monitor (where she was) in a manner that indicated he went off-script and was horsing around, simply that everyone was stunned when the gun went bang... and then they realized she was hit.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:30 pm to baldona
quote:My understanding is that he was rehearsing, and that everyone expected the gun to be empty.
but literally no one I’ve seen says that Baldwin was rehearsing and supposed to be blanks. He simply
Claims the gun went off unexpectedly.
I thought the scene was that he was seated on a bench/church pew, was approached by a bad guy (per the script), and he draws-fires.
And that they were working out that scene, how best to present it. So he draws and pulls trigger as intended, at a pre-determined area, and she was there instead of out of the line of fire.
Again, a cheap and easy way to get the best angle.
Only, the gun was loaded and went bang, which shocked the shite out of everyone. And then they realized "oh shite you shot her"
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:50 pm to Scoob
When's the movie coming out?
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:51 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
He made fun of Trump on SNL. So the minions must make him pay.
Politics have frick all to do with the fact that he pointed a gun at a person and pulled the trigger. Period.
quote:
Look it’s the OT’s favorite dollar general faux lawyer
Posted on 1/19/24 at 8:57 pm to PNW_TigerSaint
Posted on 1/19/24 at 9:18 pm to PNW_TigerSaint
Bailiff… Whack his pee pee!
Posted on 1/19/24 at 9:27 pm to Saint Alfonzo
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/1/24 at 6:49 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 9:32 pm to Scoob
You realize 2 people were shot right? No, the lady killed was not moving to get a better shot. Literally nothing has said that. I can’t find it but I believe the bullet actually hit the other guy first in like the shoulder and then hit her in the chest and killed her? Here’s the story from Wikipedia:
“The trio behind the monitor were two feet (0.6 m) from the muzzle of the firearm and none of them were wearing protective gear such as noise-canceling headphones or safety goggles.[12]
The trio behind the monitor began repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, and Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm.[10] He said, "So, I guess I'm gonna take this out, pull it, and go, 'Bang!'"[12] When he removed it from the holster, the revolver discharged a single time. Baldwin denied pulling the trigger of the gun, while ABC News described a later FBI report stating that the gun could only fire if the trigger was pulled.“
ETA: I’ve never stated here he was guilty of murder. He’s not guilty of a lot. But he was the producer and the actor here that discharged the weapon. He should have taken better safety precautions and as the producer he damn well knew that.
“The trio behind the monitor were two feet (0.6 m) from the muzzle of the firearm and none of them were wearing protective gear such as noise-canceling headphones or safety goggles.[12]
The trio behind the monitor began repositioning the camera to remove a shadow, and Baldwin began explaining to the crew how he planned to draw the firearm.[10] He said, "So, I guess I'm gonna take this out, pull it, and go, 'Bang!'"[12] When he removed it from the holster, the revolver discharged a single time. Baldwin denied pulling the trigger of the gun, while ABC News described a later FBI report stating that the gun could only fire if the trigger was pulled.“
ETA: I’ve never stated here he was guilty of murder. He’s not guilty of a lot. But he was the producer and the actor here that discharged the weapon. He should have taken better safety precautions and as the producer he damn well knew that.
This post was edited on 1/19/24 at 9:34 pm
Posted on 1/19/24 at 9:35 pm to lsuconnman
quote:
That would be a weird western if the lead character wasn’t allowed to point his “loaded weapon” at anyone.
Again, angles are always used so that you are never pulling a trigger directly at someone. You drive down the road toward someone every day, but you don’t drive straight into them. It’s a fairly basic concept.
Posted on 1/19/24 at 11:23 pm to baldona
I still think the overlooked issue is this was possibly a setup.
Meaning, someone was really pissed off at them, as stated a lot of people were walking off the production. A bunch due to safety issues, and I would imagine a bunch also about not getting paid (or paid enough, etc).
Someone might have held a grudge, and decided they would frick "those bastards" but good. They knew the armorer was incompetent and probably just got her job screwing someone (maybe Baldwin himself), they knew all sorts of corners were being cut. Load a few rounds into the revolver, Baldwin would shoot a wall with live ammo, the whole production gets shut down and he gets fined and embarrassed. Show them for not paying what they should have... but the incompetence and corner cutting was worse then they anticipated and somebody got killed.
What I'm saying is not that Baldwin isn't at fault or responsible, but I don't think he'd ever intentionally frick around with a loaded gun and point it at someone. I don't think he knew what was going on at a lot of levels, paid the cheapest he could get to make this film, and everything went bad.
For the record, I do see on IMDB or somewhere, the movie is still in the works. I looked it up, and Jensen Ackles has left the cast, but he's been replaced with somebody else as of May 2023. So as recently as 7 months ago, they were still trying to finish it.
Meaning, someone was really pissed off at them, as stated a lot of people were walking off the production. A bunch due to safety issues, and I would imagine a bunch also about not getting paid (or paid enough, etc).
Someone might have held a grudge, and decided they would frick "those bastards" but good. They knew the armorer was incompetent and probably just got her job screwing someone (maybe Baldwin himself), they knew all sorts of corners were being cut. Load a few rounds into the revolver, Baldwin would shoot a wall with live ammo, the whole production gets shut down and he gets fined and embarrassed. Show them for not paying what they should have... but the incompetence and corner cutting was worse then they anticipated and somebody got killed.
What I'm saying is not that Baldwin isn't at fault or responsible, but I don't think he'd ever intentionally frick around with a loaded gun and point it at someone. I don't think he knew what was going on at a lot of levels, paid the cheapest he could get to make this film, and everything went bad.
For the record, I do see on IMDB or somewhere, the movie is still in the works. I looked it up, and Jensen Ackles has left the cast, but he's been replaced with somebody else as of May 2023. So as recently as 7 months ago, they were still trying to finish it.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 12:18 am to baldona
quote:
You realize 2 people were shot right? No, the lady killed was not moving to get a better shot. Literally nothing has said that. I can’t find it but I believe the bullet actually hit the other guy first in like the shoulder and then hit her in the chest and killed her?
Uh oh, the magic bullet. Was there a grassy knoll in the area?
Posted on 1/20/24 at 2:24 am to Scoob
quote:
My understanding is that he was rehearsing, and that everyone expected the gun to be empty. I thought the scene was that he was seated on a bench/church pew, was approached by a bad guy (per the script), and he draws-fires. And that they were working out that scene, how best to present it. So he draws and pulls trigger as intended, at a pre-determined area, and she was there instead of out of the line of fire. Again, a cheap and easy way to get the best angle. Only, the gun was loaded and went bang, which shocked the shite out of everyone. And then they realized "oh shite you shot her"
Which is the very definition of negligent homicide. Or, involuntary manslaughter. A gun is an inherently dangerous object where extraordinary care must be used when handling one to avoid an accident. As soon as Baldwin pointed the gun at someone, he was at risk of negligence if an accident happened because a gun is an inherently dangerous object.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 3:33 am to Scoob
quote:
For the record, I do see on IMDB or somewhere, the movie is still in the works. I looked it up, and Jensen Ackles has left the cast, but he's been replaced with somebody else as of May 2023. So as recently as 7 months ago, they were still trying to finish it.
They moved filming to Montana a long time ago, I think it was finished many months ago. And Baldwin said long ago that he had drawn the hammer partially back with his thumb and it slipped and the pistol fired.
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