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1
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:04 pm to Scoob
I wonder if it wasn’t Baldwin, a bleeding heart liberal, and it was Clint Eastwood or someone similar would people really think he should be charged with something like this? I really feel like the double standard goes both ways and I fricking hate that.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:07 pm to bigberg2000
quote:
I really feel like the double standard goes both ways and I fricking hate that.
Exactly. I don’t care for Baldwin and strongly disagree with him politically, but this was just a terrible accident.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:10 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
I don’t care for Baldwin and strongly disagree with him politically, but this was just a terrible accident.
That's why the charge is involuntary manslaughter and not something worse.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:17 pm to auggie
quote:
That's why the charge is involuntary manslaughter and not something worse.
Ahh well that makes sense. I just remember when it first happened everyone was like frick him die pussy. I was like whoa this is just an unfortunate accident.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:16 pm to auggie
quote:Vic Morrow and 2 kids died on set; Jon Landis was acquitted of manslaughter in the Twilight Zone movie.quote:
That's what's supposed to be going on, at least.
Yeah, and how did that work out for the camera lady?
Nobody was even charged with manslaughter in Brandon Lee's death.
They're just as dead as the cinematographer.
Now, the Landis thing has more bearing, because he was the director and had authority/responsibility over the set, similar to Baldwin (the PRODUCER) had over this production.
But that's a different argument than when people keep shouting "he pointed a gun at her and shot her".
I strongly believe Baldwin the PRODUCER, whoever the director was, and the armorer, are all liable in this woman's death. They did not follow established protocols, and their negligence/willful disregard for said protocols led directly to a workplace death.
But I don't think you're gonna get a conviction of Baldwin the ACTOR, for the act of actually pointing a gun at and shooting someone. There's going to be so much gray area, about who has chain of custody over the firearms etc, what the actor's responsibility to enact a scene with "a prop" handed to him, and so forth.
It does him no favors that he said "I didn't pull the trigger" etc. I would have assumed his lawyers would have insisted he say some version of "I was handed a prop that was declared cold".
Posted on 1/20/24 at 11:39 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
You know who hired the armorer? Baldwin himself. And he hired one that was inexperienced and young to save a buck.
That's a civil matter (for Baldwin), not criminal.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 5:05 am to 632627
Here’s a link to the industry guidelines for handling of firearms on set.
LINK /
Some pertinent points:
‘’ No one shall be issued a firearm unless they have been trained in the safe handling, use, proper firing procedures, and proper use of all mechanical safety devices for each type of firearm. If there is any uncertainty as to the qualifications of the person who will use the firearm, the Production, in consultation with the Property Master, shall determine if additional training is required and shall ensure adequate time is provided for such training.
All cast and crew who are in proximity to working firearms should be trained about safe zones and about the proper conduct of personnel who will be present near firearms. This training can be accomplished through the safety meeting or by other means as determined by Production Management.’’
“Whenever the Property Master gives a firearm to a performer, the Property Master shall advise the performer of the type of blank or dummy round being used and afford the performer, cast, and crew the supervised opportunity to verify the same.”
“ Anyone handling the firearm will refrain from pointing a firearm at any person, including themselves. If it is necessary to aim a firearm at another person on camera, the Property Master will be consulted to determine available options. Remember: a firearm, including one loaded with blanks, can inflict severe damage to anything/anyone at which/to whom the firearm is pointed”
In light of these industry procedures, I don’t see how anyone can come to the conclusion other than involuntary manslaughter for Baldwin.
- he’s been in the industry for decades, he’s been in other films with guns. Therefore he is knowledgeable of what the procedures are
- as an actor, he should have been trained on how to use the gun safely in the movie
- as a producer, he is responsible for ensuring that training is carried out
- Baldwin is trained to know that the prop master has to tell him how the gun is loaded, and that he should ask the prop master to show him that it is loaded correctly with the correct ammo
- Baldwin is trained to know not to point a gun directly at someone because a gun with blanks can still go damage. If a shot requires it, the Propmaster should be consulted to ensure additional measures are put in place.
Bottom line, Baldwin was performing an inherently dangerous act which is pointing a gun at someone, and he did not exercise due care when he did that as he ignored industry processes. That equals involuntary manslaughter
LINK /
Some pertinent points:
‘’ No one shall be issued a firearm unless they have been trained in the safe handling, use, proper firing procedures, and proper use of all mechanical safety devices for each type of firearm. If there is any uncertainty as to the qualifications of the person who will use the firearm, the Production, in consultation with the Property Master, shall determine if additional training is required and shall ensure adequate time is provided for such training.
All cast and crew who are in proximity to working firearms should be trained about safe zones and about the proper conduct of personnel who will be present near firearms. This training can be accomplished through the safety meeting or by other means as determined by Production Management.’’
“Whenever the Property Master gives a firearm to a performer, the Property Master shall advise the performer of the type of blank or dummy round being used and afford the performer, cast, and crew the supervised opportunity to verify the same.”
“ Anyone handling the firearm will refrain from pointing a firearm at any person, including themselves. If it is necessary to aim a firearm at another person on camera, the Property Master will be consulted to determine available options. Remember: a firearm, including one loaded with blanks, can inflict severe damage to anything/anyone at which/to whom the firearm is pointed”
In light of these industry procedures, I don’t see how anyone can come to the conclusion other than involuntary manslaughter for Baldwin.
- he’s been in the industry for decades, he’s been in other films with guns. Therefore he is knowledgeable of what the procedures are
- as an actor, he should have been trained on how to use the gun safely in the movie
- as a producer, he is responsible for ensuring that training is carried out
- Baldwin is trained to know that the prop master has to tell him how the gun is loaded, and that he should ask the prop master to show him that it is loaded correctly with the correct ammo
- Baldwin is trained to know not to point a gun directly at someone because a gun with blanks can still go damage. If a shot requires it, the Propmaster should be consulted to ensure additional measures are put in place.
Bottom line, Baldwin was performing an inherently dangerous act which is pointing a gun at someone, and he did not exercise due care when he did that as he ignored industry processes. That equals involuntary manslaughter
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:22 pm to BradBallard
quote:
“Whenever the Property Master gives a firearm to a performer, the Property Master shall advise the performer of the type of blank or dummy round being used and afford the performer, cast, and crew the supervised opportunity to verify the same.”
quote:
Remember: a firearm, including one loaded with blanks, can inflict severe damage
This is where everything goes sideways.
States the Property Master or Armorer is supposed to advise what type of round, including dummy or blank, is in use.
Far as I've discovered, it wasn't supposed to be even blanks at that point. Either dummy rounds, or empty cylinder.
It CLEARLY wasn't.
So my question in all this here- what about the rest of the dummy rounds? I'm on the assumption that someone at some point eyeballed, and saw "not blanks"... and wrongfully assumed dummy rounds. (We may not have even got that far)
Were live rounds mixed into the dummy round supply, and accidentally loaded into the gun? Or was the gun not even checked? Seems like that would be a key point to determine, when you START investigating this incident.
Either way indicates a serious breach of protocol on chain of custody of the guns.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:29 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
Exactly. I don’t care for Baldwin and strongly disagree with him politically, but this was just a terrible accident.
A terrible accident that should have never happened if proper protocols that an experienced actor and producer follows to prevent this exact thing from happening.
Don’t point a gun at someone. It’s very simply.
No one is saying he murdered her and should do life in jail.
Posted on 1/21/24 at 12:30 pm to auggie
quote:
It is the responsibility of everyone who handles a firearm to check the status of it.
Something that has completely gotten lost in all of this.
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