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Started By
Message
re: Are we, as a society, losing our way?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:14 am to Centinel
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:14 am to Centinel
quote:
And people are realizing this more and more every day.
no they aren't people just seek affirmation
if the science backs their beliefs, its good science
if the science says something they don't like, its bad science
1
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:15 am to Loup
quote:
How do you determine what is bad information?
Facts are facts. They are correct if they are facts. If they are incorrect, they are not facts. This is pretty easy to determine.
quote:
I don't see this as a problem.
If people are using incorrect data, they become further uneducated. Increasing uneducated society is NOT a good thing.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:15 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Well, when it's your job on the line, I guess that's human nature. Unlike government workers, they don't get paid if they don't work.
And that's fine. Just don't be shocked when you get garbage science, and when people stop trusting scientists or experts because of it.
quote:
Correct. They need to eat, and took the job that pays them.
See above.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:16 am to Centinel
quote:
The days of science for science's sake are dead. And have been for a while. Money rules scientific research just as much as it rules the corporate world.
It's still out there.
quote:
But the "we don't know" would never have made it to the public, because the study would never have happened if the scientists were being honest about their abilities and data available.
That's not necessarily true. If you look at the discussions of some of the newer research about COVID-19 right now, there's a lot of "we don't know enough yet" in those discussion sections. It's just not making it to media because they're desperate for reaction. Or to be "first" to report, so the full details don't get reported accurately.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:16 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The problem is, if we never had any lockdowns or restrictions at all, what would the real numbers have turned out to be?
This argument can be used for any situation, and we rarely if ever choose the most drastic measures based on unknowns. Until now, and you're criticized for questioning.
Science can tell you how bad the results could be, but politicians make these choices. Not scientists.
How do we know the lockdowns aren't more damaging to our future?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:17 am to tigerfoot
quote:
This kind of talk is where we are at now
OK, smarty pants, tell me what's wrong with my Unity Plan?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:18 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
there's a lot of "we don't know enough yet"
Now maybe you'll understand that dissent isn't anti science.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:19 am to Salmon
quote:
no they aren't
Ya, they are. I mean when "top experts" come out and say X is going to happen, and it doesn't, what do you think that does to trust in our experts and scientific institutions?
quote:
if the science backs their beliefs, its good science
if the science says something they don't like, its bad science
Ok, but that's not what we're discussing here. At least that's not what I'm discussing. Specifically the result of scientific experts being spectacularly wrong on covid predictions and the resultant increase of distrust in said experts by the general populace, and the impact that has in people turning to conspiracy theories for explanations.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:20 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Now maybe you'll understand that dissent isn't anti science.
I understand the difference in dissent based on variables outside of science and completely disregarding science because you don't understand the fluid nature of science/research and how it should be applied.
But your passive aggressiveness here kind of brings up the OPs point. Just because we disagree on the mechanism doesn't mean you have to be condescending about it.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 10:21 am
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:22 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
That's not necessarily true.
Now.
quote:
If you look at the discussions of some of the newer research about COVID-19 right now, there's a lot of "we don't know enough yet" in those discussion sections.
Good. It sounds like other scientists are learning from the mistakes from the earlier ones. The problem is the entire globe's response wasn't based on the former, but the latter.
quote:
It's just not making it to media because they're desperate for reaction. Or to be "first" to report, so the full details don't get reported accurately.
Again, I'm not saying the media doesn't have some blame here. I'm not exactly known for saying kind words about the media around here.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:23 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
But your passive aggressiveness here kind of brings up the OPs point.
You're trusting politicians who are responding to "we don't know enough yet" with draconian measures and calling it scienc
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:23 am to Centinel
quote:
I mean when "top experts" come out and say X is going to happen, and it doesn't, what do you think that does to trust in our experts and scientific institutions?
well that is entirely dependent on your already held views
quote:
Specifically the result of scientific experts being spectacularly wrong on covid predictions and the resultant increase of distrust in said experts by the general populace, and the impact that has in people turning to conspiracy theories for explanations.
I don't think anyone really changed their mind much at all during any of this TBH
the extremes certainly did not
the "ho hum" people have shifted slightly from "some concern" to "less concern" over time, but thats about it
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:24 am to Salmon
quote:
I don't think anyone really changed their mind much at all during any of this TBH
And I think you're incorrect in this statement.
quote:
the extremes certainly did not
Won't argue here though.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:25 am to Centinel
quote:
And I think you're incorrect in this statement.
you honestly think the people sharing that dumb "Plandemic" video were people that held lots of trust in the government or science before this?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:25 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You're trusting politicians who are responding to "we don't know enough yet" with draconian measures and calling it scienc
Nah. I'm trusting that the science is evolving when looking at a novel virus. That variables change. That a study in China or Italy may or may not be applicable here.
But most importantly, hindsight is 20/20 and you can only make decisions on what you know in that timeframe. It's very easy to look back and say this or that should've been done differently based on what we know now (which still isn't a whole hell of a lot).
We've seen this in almost every pandemic we've dealt with.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:28 am to Centinel
quote:
Good. It sounds like other scientists are learning from the mistakes from the earlier ones. The problem is the entire globe's response wasn't based on the former, but the latter.
Even the older research had those discussions. Like I said, it just wasn't disseminated as such to the general population. Who sadly, weren't properly taught how to really read research and determine for themselves what is/isn't valid.
It is an interesting discussion that maybe things like that should be of greater significance in K-12 education.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 10:29 am
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:28 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
How do we know the lockdowns aren't more damaging to our future?
It's a question of medical damage vs economic damage. I think it's pretty easy to say that the lockdowns did help with some of the medical issues. But I think it's also very easy to say that it may have caused more economic damage than was needed.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:30 am to Salmon
quote:
you honestly think the people sharing that dumb "Plandemic" video were people that held lots of trust in the government or science before this?
I think you'd be surprised.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:32 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
It's a question of medical damage vs economic damage.
Then you should at least understand there's a spectrum here and all f us have different ideas what the tradeoff should be.
I also am positive that personal sacrifice is the primary driver in the opennit up vs keep it closed debate. This se who support long term lockdowns seem to be those who have lost two months worth of income.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 10:33 am to Centinel
quote:
I think you'd be surprised.
and I think you are grasping
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