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re: Apparently Ken Burns is coming out with an American Revolution documentary series
Posted on 6/17/25 at 5:16 pm to udtiger
Posted on 6/17/25 at 5:16 pm to udtiger
quote:
Burns has been trying to "atone" for the positive light he gave the South in CW.
If you study the history it’s obvious who the good guys were
0
Posted on 6/17/25 at 5:37 pm to prostyleoffensetime
quote:
Yeah, I get that he's got a decent amount of white guilt, but he's overall bearable. If you can watch his docs knowing that going in, about 10-15% of it will focus on the plight of the black population during that era, the rest is usually fantastic.
It seems nearly impossible to tackle the topic in today’s America without emphasizing some white guilt. There were plenty of contradictions with the founding fathers, but I don’t let that take away from what was accomplished.
That being said, I don’t need a full hour segment on Crispus Attucks as a virtue signal.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 5:41 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, and Prescott Bush were Nazi sympathizers.
There were a lot of (probably more) communist sympathizers in our midst too but they don’t get near the criticism of the others you mentioned.
Both are equally detestable in my mind.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 5:45 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Both can be true, we can celebrate one truth and call out the other as wrong, historical people aren’t all good or all bad.
I’m going to put forth that Jefferson’s good to the entire world far outweighed the bad of him owning slaves during a time in which slavery was practiced everywhere.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 6:18 pm to Reubaltaich
quote:
TJ never fathered ANY children with Hemmings. And subsequent DNA tests verified it.
????
You’re definitively wrong. Jefferson’s own society agrees that it’s basically settled fact now and a DNA study in 1998 found evidence in at least two of her son’s lines. Why are you just posting lies? Once again why can’t TJ be good for the world and also fathered children with Hemmings?
LINK
This post was edited on 6/17/25 at 6:20 pm
Posted on 6/17/25 at 6:23 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
There were a lot of (probably more) communist sympathizers in our midst too but they don’t get near the criticism of the others you mentioned.
Both are equally detestable in my mind.
Agree.
Although it's hard to think of a bloodline that did more harm to America than the Bushes.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 6:30 pm to Bestbank Tiger
And you think that had something to do with Prescott Bush’s supposed Nazi sympathy?
Posted on 6/17/25 at 6:59 pm to prostyleoffensetime
quote:
It does sound like he'll have a little bit of shite about the Indians of Upstate NY influencing the politics of some of the founding fathers.
The concept of the seperation of branch powers took a lot of inspiration from the Iroquois' political process.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 8:04 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
I've never seen a second of any work created by Burns, but I am aware of and must participate in the idiotic discourse around his recent work. If dummies like bueboy have told me that he is making anti-white arguments in his historical documentaries, even when he very clearly isn't, then I have no choice but to take that as the gospel truth.
Fixed the op.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 8:47 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
You’re definitively wrong. Jefferson’s own society agrees that it’s basically settled fact now and a DNA study in 1998 found evidence in at least two of her son’s lines.
LOL. They are posting a DISCREDITED study done by the 1998 Nature Magazine as 'proof'.
What they did NOT post, a short 8 weeks later, Nature RETRACTED their little expose'. Opps, did not read that one on their site.
To take it even further:
quote:
The Scholars Commission report pointed out that the original DNA report indicated only that a Jefferson male had fathered one of Sally Hemings's children; the available DNA could not specify Thomas Jefferson as the father.
Scholars Overturn Case for Thomas Jefferson's Relationship with Slave Sally Hemings
by J. Patrick Mullins (June 2, 2001)
[CAPITALISMMAGAZINE.COM] In April 2001, a "blue ribbon" commission of highly accomplished and nationally recognized scholars reported its findings after a year-long investigation of the evidence for a sexual relationship between Thomas Jefferson and his house slave, Sally Hemings.
The thirteen-member Scholars Commission agreed unanimously that the allegation of such a relationship is "by no means proven" and regretted that "public confusion about the 1998 DNA testing and other evidence has misled many people into believing that the issue is closed." With the exception of one of the thirteen commission members, the scholars' "individual conclusions range from serious skepticism about the charge to a conviction that it is almost certainly false."
LINK
quote:
The Scholars Commission report pointed out that the original DNA report indicated only that a Jefferson male had fathered one of Sally Hemings's children; the available DNA could not specify Thomas Jefferson as the father. Noting that as many as eight adult Jefferson males lived within a hundred miles of Monticello, the commission's majority shifted the likelihood of Eston's paternity to Thomas Jefferson's younger brother, Randolph.
Randolph Jefferson was known to fraternize with the Monticello slaves and is believed to have been present at Monticello at the estimated time of Eston's conception. Even oral tradition in Eston Hemings's family seems to point to Randolph rather than Thomas as Eston's father. It also appears that Sally's children were all born in the years when Randolph was a widower. He remarried in 1809, and Sally had her last child in 1808, despite the fact that Thomas Jefferson returned from the White House to live in Monticello full time in 1809.
quote:
Why are you just posting lies?
The real question is WHY are you still believing lies about TJ that has been discredited many times over?
Posted on 6/17/25 at 8:57 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
grizzlylongcut
Posted on 6/17/25 at 9:17 pm to Lexis Dad
quote:
Lexis Dad
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmcreampie
Posted on 6/17/25 at 9:20 pm to grizzlylongcut
different poster. this one became the first poster i’ve ever seen banned for being an insufferable dork. which takes an insane amount of dedication
Posted on 6/17/25 at 9:22 pm to Reubaltaich
quote:
The real question is WHY are you still believing lies about TJ that has been discredited many times over?
everyone, including him, already knows the answer to this question
Posted on 6/17/25 at 10:03 pm to ned nederlander
The Untold History of the United States, Ukraine on Fire, JFK Revisited, etc all pretty damn good.
Wish Oliver Stone would do more in depth, period piece documentaries
Not saying i don’t like KB. He is the best at his craft. But would interesting to see Stone take on the CW or Revolution in his style.
Wish Oliver Stone would do more in depth, period piece documentaries
Not saying i don’t like KB. He is the best at his craft. But would interesting to see Stone take on the CW or Revolution in his style.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 10:18 pm to Reubaltaich
quote:
The real question is WHY are you still believing lies about TJ that has been discredited many times over?
We can sit here and argue back and forth. The reality is MOST historical societies and experts agree that TJ is very likely the father of all or some of Hemmings children. The Thomas Jefferson Society is one of the few foundations that disagrees. There is evidence in the form or written accounts, verbal accounts, DNA studies (I’ll give to you that they aren’t definitive or conclusive).
Regardless of whether you agree he is the father or not, my point still stands. It is possible to revere these guys as heroes of our country, champions of freedom, and ground breakers for individual rights, while still accepting they were flawed men who made mistakes and at times even acted in ways that were immoral and hypocritical to their beliefs.
I don’t see why that is controversial, they aren’t gods who can do no wrong, that doesn’t mean they weren’t great men who impacted the world in a positive way.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 10:21 pm to mrservon
quote:historical fiction
But would interesting to see Stone take on the CW or Revolution in his style.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 12:04 am to Reubaltaich
quote:
Reubaltaich
The only one lying is you. It was well known in Jefferson's time that he was the father of Sally's children.
Contrary to what you say, Thomas Jefferson's Monticello organization acknowledges this fact to this day and is completely at odds with what you claim about the DNA. And there's the fact his brother wasn't at Monticello at the times Sally became pregnant.
quote:
Years after his wife’s death, Thomas Jefferson fathered at least six of Sally Hemings’s children. Four survived to adulthood and are mentioned in Jefferson’s plantation records: Beverly, Harriet, Madison, and Eston Hemings. Sally Hemings worked for two and a half years (1787-89) in Paris as a domestic servant and maid in Jefferson’s household. While in Paris, where enslaved people could petition for their freedom, she negotiated with Jefferson to return to enslavement at Monticello in exchange for “extraordinary privileges” for herself and freedom for her unborn children. Decades later, Jefferson freed all of Sally Hemings’s children – Beverly and Harriet left Monticello in the early 1820s; Madison and Eston were freed in his will and left Monticello in 1826. Jefferson did not grant freedom to any other enslaved family unit.
Thomas Jefferson's Monticello
He enslaved his own children. There are multiple accounts from the time of people being shocked at the resemblance between him and some of his servants, particularly one male servant.
But even putting that aside, the treatment of the other slaves at Monticello was despicable. He was a complete hypocrite. He wrote an article condemning a certain punishment for slaves, but when he was in dire financial straights and needed them to produce as many matches as possible at the factory at Monticello (his main source of income, as Monticello was not suited for profitable agriculture), he had his overseers use that same form of punishment against them. You children born to his slaves were forced from a young age to work in that match factory. He was a hypocrite of the highest order.
This post was edited on 6/18/25 at 12:12 am
Posted on 6/18/25 at 6:43 am to grizzlylongcut
For your own good, please don't watch it. You're already upset just imagining what it will be like.
You may have a stroke the first time they mention Peter Salem, Crispus Attucks, or the all black First Rhode Island Regiment.
You may have a stroke the first time they mention Peter Salem, Crispus Attucks, or the all black First Rhode Island Regiment.
Posted on 6/18/25 at 6:56 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, and Prescott Bush were Nazi sympathizers.
Joe Kennedy was very much one as well.
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