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Message
re: AP: Parents begged cops to enter school as shooting unfolded. Cops refused
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:06 am to Jim Rockford
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:06 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
, which I assume would take 30 minutes or longer. Then they'd have to get here, which would take another 30 minutes under absolutely perfect conditions
False. Competent SWAT teams will be deployed to the hot scene, depending on the distance, the first operators will arrive in a short period of time. Again this depends on the distance. Once the first operator arrives, he takes the scene over and goes in immediately and "hunts" the shooter. The first rule is to stop the shooting by pressing the fight (in active shooter situations). However, SWAT teams dont usually get to take part in Active shooter situations as they are over soon after they begin. If this story is true and officers waited for a Tactical team, they should be fired and charged. They are cowards and I hope they see those children's faces every time they close their eyes.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:12 am
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Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:06 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
You can put on a badge and gun.
But nobody knows what they would do. Hearing those shots go off. Take cover or press forward. Blind. In what has to be a huge arse building to try and clear.
I like to think I would go in. I ALMOST know I would. Almost.
But nobody knows what they would do. Hearing those shots go off. Take cover or press forward. Blind. In what has to be a huge arse building to try and clear.
I like to think I would go in. I ALMOST know I would. Almost.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:06 am to Bronc
So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. This kid exchanged gunfire with, and took out 3 LEOs, broke into the school and it took how many people to finally take him out - were the LEOs not wearing vests? Did he have tactical armor on? The articles say he only had the gun for a month - how the hell did he learn to shoot like that in a month? What the heck am I missing in this story?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:07 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
The whole argument for putting cops in schools is for protection and prevention of shootings like this. It’s literally the main argument. And it’s an argument that isn’t waiting on the “full story” to come out either.
If they have no duty to protect and have potentially in more than one school shooting instance just stood by while it happened then what the frick are they there for? Window dressing?
They’re there to strategically and responsibly bring the situation to a close. It’s easy for us, namely parents, in our land of hypotheticals behind the safety of our keyboards, to suggest we’d run in. Mitigating loss of life, regardless which side of the badge, is a factor - how many LEO lives are appropriate to sacrifice to achieve breach and shooter kill and collateral damage? 10? 20? All of them?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:07 am to cable
quote:
What the heck am I missing in this story?
The actual details, because they haven’t been established and released yet.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:08 am to zsav77
quote:
There is, and it’s been said by multiple posters that know what they’re talking about in this thread.
First officers on scene, you go in for an active shooter. You don’t wait for four or five more officers, you go in straight to the sound of gunfire. You don’t stop for the wounded, you don’t stop to help civilians flee. You go to stop the threat.
Columbine changed everything. You don’t stop to gather info and you don’t wait for more backup. You go in if you hear gunfire.
correct. active shooter training has been taught for over 20 years. it's been standardized.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:09 am to monsterballads
quote:
I would love to hear more about their department policy telling them to squat outside while there's an active shooter.
I'm talking specifically about the policy that says that a single officer must wait for backup to arrive before entering.
The cop that killed the shooter went in alone from what I read yesterday.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:11 am to Indefatigable
quote:
The actual details, because they haven’t been established and released yet.
Well, there has to be more this bc he conducted this thing with military like tactical precision. IDK how one 18 year old kid - with zero training - can pull something like this off. There's always the possibility that these LEOs were just incompetent fools, I guess.
It just seems really weird to me that people with hundreds of hours of training can get outgunned by an 18 year old that's owned weapons for a month.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:14 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:14 am to cable
quote:
Well, there has to be more this bc he conducted this thing with military like tactical precision. IDK how one 18 year old kid - with zero training - can pull something like this off. There's always the possibility that these LEOs were just incompetent fools, I guess.
He put his vehicle in a ditch and ran into a school. It’s not like he infiltrated fort Knox, clearing each level.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:14 am to cable
quote:
he conducted this thing with military like tactical precision
he wrecked his truck and entered an unlocked back door of an elementary school...what part is military like precision?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:17 am to cable
How difficult do you think it is to open an unlocked door and shoot a classroom full of children?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:17 am to Topwater Trout
Maybe I misread the articles, but he took out 3 LEOs on the way into the building.
Like the military never wrecks a vehicle
It's the 1 month owning the guns to taking down 3 LEOs that has me confused. Again - mb I didn't read that correctly.
Like the military never wrecks a vehicle
It's the 1 month owning the guns to taking down 3 LEOs that has me confused. Again - mb I didn't read that correctly.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:19 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:19 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:i agree that it's a good idea and should be done... but what's it really going to do in adam lanza/nick cruz situation unless the cop is former special ops or something?
The whole argument for putting cops in schools is for protection and prevention of shootings like this. It’s literally the main argument.
it would be pretty easy to take out the one line of defense with any amount of planning.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:20 am to zsav77
quote:
quote:
There should be a standard training for all police type folks across the country for some sort of basic swat/breach in situations like this.
There is, and it’s been said by multiple posters that know what they’re talking about in this thread.
First officers on scene, you go in for an active shooter. You don’t wait for four or five more officers, you go in straight to the sound of gunfire. You don’t stop for the wounded, you don’t stop to help civilians flee. You go to stop the threat.
Columbine changed everything. You don’t stop to gather info and you don’t wait for more backup. You go in if you hear gunfire.
Sounds like there were a couple officers that did that, or maybe were already there and had an exchange if gun fire...they weren't successful. Being a first officer on the scene and going in solo without a vest and helmet, seems like a terrible idea. You say there is standard training, but this same scenario seems to happen regularly, thus, the training is ineffective and needs to be updated. Or maybe there is a need for better quality officers. There are plenty of great officers, but not enough. Raise the pay and raise the criteria and maybe the talent pool would get better. Plenty of people out there that would make fantastic officers (intelligent, fit, brave enough to risk their lives when needed), but the pay is absolute shite compared to what those same people can make doing other things. I'm sure there are lots of changes made in the background after every one of these incidents, but it's not apparent at all that it's having any improvement in handling these situations.
No doubt in my mind that raising pay, increasing the criteria to become an officer, and better training would lead to a better outcome in these situations.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:25 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:20 am to cable
quote:
Maybe I misread the articles, but he took out 3 LEOs on the way into the building.
He didn’t “take them down” like Liam Neeson in Taken. He avoided the SRO and then shot the two cops who attempted to enter the hallway behind him, who only had handguns. Then immediately entered the classroom. That whole chain of events from being engaged by the SRO to being in the classroom was just a couple of minutes.
One does not need to be trained or even proficient with weapons to shoot people walking into a doorway.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 8:27 am
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:21 am to cable
quote:
Maybe I misread the articles, but he took out 3 LEOs on the way into the building.
I believe what you meant by the precision post was about taking out the officers… I’d assume they went after him with pistols, he had a rifle. If he got into the school, took up a good cover position and had at least basic knowledge of sight alignment and trigger squeeze, he had a huge advantage.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:21 am to cable
quote:
So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. This kid exchanged gunfire with, and took out 3 LEOs, broke into the school and it took how many people to finally take him out - were the LEOs not wearing vests? Did he have tactical armor on? The articles say he only had the gun for a month - how the hell did he learn to shoot like that in a month? What the heck am I missing in this story?
Like others have said all the details aren't out yet but I'm guessing the kid had the advantage of being totally willing to die while LEO's he shot did not. That can make a significant difference
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:24 am to cable
quote:
Maybe I misread the articles, but he took out 3 LEOs on the way into the building.
there is a video of him entering the building. Didn't even look like he was in a hurry.
quote:
It's the 1 month owning the guns to taking down 3 LEOs that has me confused
he could have been blindly shooting and hit them in the leg or something...I don't see how that is considered precise or that he was well trained with a gun. I seriously doubt the Uvelde police dept has an elite police force
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:24 am to zsav77
quote:
I’d assume they went after him with pistols,
LEO should - at least - have tactical shotguns in that situation. Why would they walk into a firefight like that with just Glocks?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 8:24 am to cable
quote:
What the heck am I missing in this story?
That an elementary school is a very soft target. Handguns are generally useless.
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