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Started By
Message
re: Alexander the Great or ghengis khan
Posted on 4/26/19 at 9:37 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Posted on 4/26/19 at 9:37 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Half of the mongol empire was taken by his grandson kublai.
Subatai reached the Danube River in Europe. Subatai was a general under Ogedei Khan, Genghis Khan's son. Historians agree that if Ogedei didn't fall ill and die, the Mongols would have reached the Atlantic.
2
Posted on 4/26/19 at 9:43 am to BIGFOOD
quote:I don’t know about that part but there was a real possibility no doubt. But again, the fact that both his sons, grandsons, and generals were all magnificent does not help in the argument as to whether ghengis was a better general than Alexander. If we were arguing whether which empire was greater the Macedonian or mongol This wouldn’t be a debate but that isn’t the question here and in fact I believe the ability of those around ghengis can actually be used in an argument as more reasons as to why Alexander was better. Ghengis had a much better supporting cast around him. Subotai was an outstanding field commander
Historians agree
Posted on 4/26/19 at 9:48 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
I could be mistaken but I believe he always had some Russians in his army. There were still large parts of Russia that were tribal at the time that allied with the khan
Russia is fricking huge, so yes he had men within the modern borders of Russia, but I’m more referring to the Slavic people that were to the west.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 9:52 am to OMLandshark
Yeah I knew what you were talking about subotai was from that region or maybe slightly east I believe himself (I could be thinking of a different general but I think that’s him) and he was the one who conquered them for the khan.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:05 am to OMLandshark
Give Alexander Subatai and given Genghis Parmenion and let them fight it out. In both cases, the big guys trusted their very able commanders and they are more valuable than they are given credit for.
This post was edited on 4/26/19 at 10:06 am
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:07 am to FightingTigers138
quote:
Lanisters or the Dothraki
And Godzilla
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:27 am to blueboy
quote:
What wiki page are you plagiarizing?
None?
quote:
Oh, you're 12. Never mind.
Nope. You can’t just learn hundreds of years of nomadic horse culture and the bond and control they had over their horse.
quote:
Thank you for agreeing that their advantage wasn't tactical, but due to the fact that no one else had that many horsemen.
You really are an idiot.
quote:
And half of Asia isn't descended from Ghengis, so y'all can quit parroting that myth.
Link where I said this?
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:30 am to beerJeep
I just have the personal belief Alexander would end up getting the best of ghengis mentally and end up making him fight on Alexander’s terms and Alexander would win. Alexander in my opinion (and that’s all it is) is the better tactical and strategic general and would take the day because of it
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:39 am to BIGFOOD
Lord Trump vs Peasant Obama
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:40 am to beerJeep
quote:
years of nomadic horse culture and the bond and control they had over their horse.
fig way more horses, dude. that really was it.
BTW, Alexander wouldn't need any horse if he could choose his terrain, and chooses mountainous terrain.
We're talking saffron rice dick stew, bubba.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:48 am to blueboy
quote:
way more horses, dude. that really was it.
You can give every man in Alexander’s army a horse and they’d still get their shite pushed.
quote:
BTW, Alexander wouldn't need any horse if he could choose his terrain, and chooses mountainous terrain
Maybe you should ask the Chinese how “fighting in mountainous terrain” worked for them.
I’ll give you a hint. (It didn’t)
quote:
We're talking saffron rice dick stew, bubba.
No, I’m just obviously talking to someone who has very little insight on the mongols and Macedonians and the differences in their tactics.
Pick up a book some time, eh?
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:50 am to biglego
quote:
But Ghengis himself didn’t invade Eastern Europe. I think people are wrongly assuming it was Ghengis at the helm of the entire mongol conquests.
And fwiw, the mongols had Chinese engineers for sieges.
So we are punishing Genghis for learning, putting trust into good generals under him and adapting to different styles?
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:53 am to beerJeep
Your really selling Alexander short comparing him to any general China had at the time they faced the horde. China was in turmoil all around the time of the Mongolia attacks and never had a strong leader except for the
Song who held out until his grandson kublai conquered them many years after ghengis passed.
Song who held out until his grandson kublai conquered them many years after ghengis passed.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:54 am to Dire Wolf
Again this debate is just between Alexander and ghengis not the mongols vs Macedonia so yes we are punishing him for having outstanding generals. For the sake of the debate
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:55 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Alexander was a better general because he could adapt to whatever the situation was (e.g., siege of Tyre).
Genghis Khan was a better politician who stitched together an empire that actually lasted beyond his own life.
Genghis Khan was a better politician who stitched together an empire that actually lasted beyond his own life.
This post was edited on 4/26/19 at 10:56 am
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:57 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Your really selling Alexander short
I’m really not. It’s just collegiate football compared to nfl football. Ghengis (and his generals) was just on an entirely different level.
quote:
China was in turmoil all around the time of the Mongolia attacks and never had a strong leader except for the Song who held out until his grandson kublai conquered them many years after ghengis passed.
So, what is the Georgians excuse? I mean, they decimated 10k heavy knights in ONE battle.
Poof. Gone. Then the infantry. Then the king.
Like I said, the ONLY way to combat mongols is to use mongols.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:58 am to TxTiger82
quote:agree 100%
Genghis Khan was a better politician who stitched together an empire that actually lasted beyond his own life.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 10:58 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
I just have the personal belief Alexander would end up getting the best of ghengis mentally and end up making him fight on Alexander’s terms and Alexander would win. Alexander in my opinion (and that’s all it is) is the better tactical and strategic general and would take the day because of it
I agree with the second half of this statement. Alexander was the better tactical general.
But I disagree with the first half. Genghis Khan would never fight Alexander on Alexander's terms. Genghis Khan always fought on his own terms. He was much more strategic than Alexander from an empire-building perspective.
This post was edited on 4/26/19 at 10:59 am
Posted on 4/26/19 at 11:01 am to TxTiger82
quote:I would say Alexander normally did as well, but not always so you could definitely make the argument for ghengis being the better strategist but i would say it’s closer than you make it out to be. But it is definitely an argument I could see
Genghis Khan always fought on his own terms. He was much more strategic than Alexander from an empire-building perspective.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 11:02 am to TxTiger82
quote:
. Genghis Khan always fought on his own terms. He was much more strategic than Alexander from an empire-building perspective.
Ghengis has the mobility. Mobility is what wins. Mobility gives you the power to choose the location.
If Alexander sets up where ghengis doesn’t want him? He simply pulls back and rides around him to strike something in the rear or another asset that FORCES Alexander’s hand to defend said asset.
Basically the ONLY way I see Alexander winning is if he locks himself in a mountain pass and quite simply refuses to move. He just sits there and watches as the mongols have their way with his empire and lands.
The second he comes down and gives chase or tries engage in the open (because ghengis ain’t gonna ride to meet him in such a place) he’s done.
This post was edited on 4/26/19 at 11:06 am
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