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Message
re: 737 Max software is still trying to Maximum Overdrive the plane
Posted on 7/27/19 at 11:36 pm to birchbayduck
Posted on 7/27/19 at 11:36 pm to birchbayduck
Boeing is furloughing?
1
Posted on 7/27/19 at 11:43 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Well, if customers are not ordering your grounded planes....
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:10 am to KwoodTiger
quote:
What’s really scary is the fact that the FAA didn’t ground these things on their own
It took a clear and expressed order from the President of the United States, Donald Trump himself, to put these crappy planes on the ground and keep them there.
And that was after the FAA kept insisting the plane was safe to fly and there was no problem with it.
Boeing and the FAA have gotten way too close in their business relationship and they need some degree of separation.
Meanwhile, in other countries around the world, orders like that merely came down from appropriate regulatory agency and that was it.
This post was edited on 7/28/19 at 12:13 am
Posted on 7/28/19 at 12:27 am to HeyCap
quote:
A perfect example is Airbus aircraft are all fly-by-wire, ie no cables and pulleys moving individual control surfaces. This allows Airbus to incorporate a side stick (all electronic) in lieu of a traditional yoke, thereby giving the pilots an unobstructed view of the instrumentation and a handy dandy tray table to work on. The technology isn’t all that new but even Boeing’s latest products (think 787) still have a traditional yoke. Why? What’s it’s purpose? It’s fly-by-wire too. Again, that’s just one example. Pride goeth.....
Seems like the Max is yet another example.
Just because Boeing choked on a dick with the Max that doesn’t mean Airbus and FBW is suddenly worth a damn. They had their same share of crashes and problems in the last decade caused by FBW and the side stick.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 1:09 am to goofball
quote:
goofball
I was pointing this out as an example of Boeing’s arrogance which actually did play a role in the flawed Max design.
This post was edited on 7/28/19 at 1:13 am
Posted on 7/28/19 at 1:30 am to RedRifle
quote:
I can assure you the yoke does not obstruct view of instruments. The main difference is that the yoke on Boeing aircraft have artificial feel that are proportional to airspeed etc. This provides tactile feedback and feels more like stick and rudder flying. Airbus pilots do not have that feel via the sidestick. As 777 mentioned there have been several airbus crashes due to loss of control. At least two that I recall were due to bad air data to the flight control computer (just like the MAX). Things go south very quickly when the computer is flying the plane. Personally I'd take my chances with a 737 with cables in manual reversion vs an A320 in direct law.
I guess the airline I work for ordered their 767 and 747 with extra large yokes then as the view of the panel is not unobstructed.
And the side stick and rudder of the Airbus do have artificial feel programmed into them.
I would definitely prefer a cable airplane over a fbw when computers go south. But I’d be willing to bet the number of Airbus crashes from entering direct law are still less than the number of crashes in analog aircraft resulting from control problems.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 1:50 am to flyingtexastiger
quote:
I get you in a White Knight sort of way. It’s very easy to say that Boeing should just take the high ground and commit commercial suicide by refusing to produce a product that it’s customer base and by far its largest single customer are demanding that it build. Works great in a theoretical vacuum. Not so much in the real world of the markets, financing, board politics, stock price, etc. etc.
Unfortunately for your point of view the commercial viability of one of the largest manufacturing concerns in the US as well as one of the largest airlines airlines in the world drove the decision to produce the Max and try to make sure it stayed one type rating. Was that wrong? Was that a bad decision? If some software geek somewhere had written a few more lines of code to make sure it took more than one faulty AOA input to put the plane in the dirt we wouldn’t even be having this conversation and the Max would be the greatest thing since sliced bread??
Jesus, man. First you blame the customers, now you're blaming "some software geek"? I don't give a frick what the customer asks for, it shouldn't have to be spelled out to make sure the plane doesn't crash itself.
And just how much power do you think the software developers have? They only write what they are told to write, and it is tested to spec. If it wasn't to spec and was shipped anyway, the fault lies with management. If it was to spec and the spec is insufficient to keep the plane in the air, the fault lies with management. And I can tell you with near absolute certainty that many of the "software geeks" noticed the problem, because nearly every line of code written for even the simplest of software starts with the question "what happens if the input is bad?"
But the bean counters didn't give a frick. I'm sure they do now.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 2:24 am to HeyCap
quote:
I guess the airline I work for ordered their 767 and 747 with extra large yokes then as the view of the panel is not unobstructed.
5X?
Posted on 7/28/19 at 8:14 am to MikeyFL
Simple.
The Max design is essentially not airworthy in the absence of ongoing and robust flight computers DESIGNED to overcome its deficiencies.
Once you have one bad line of code, you run the risk of the natural flight characteristics augering the fricker into the ground.
The Max design is essentially not airworthy in the absence of ongoing and robust flight computers DESIGNED to overcome its deficiencies.
Once you have one bad line of code, you run the risk of the natural flight characteristics augering the fricker into the ground.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 8:21 am to Pectus
All southwest planes ate 737.
Though if flying and want to know the type of plane you're in. Your online booking info will tell you.
Either look like
A318 (A for Airbus)
B737 (B for Boeing)
Though if flying and want to know the type of plane you're in. Your online booking info will tell you.
Either look like
A318 (A for Airbus)
B737 (B for Boeing)
Posted on 7/28/19 at 8:52 am to GeauxOCDP
Hey Boeing - still glad you saved all that money by firing those high paid senior American software engineers and using cheap Indian software programmers instead?
Real fricking smart. Great use of outsourcing! Whoever came up with that idea is a genius!
Real fricking smart. Great use of outsourcing! Whoever came up with that idea is a genius!
Posted on 7/28/19 at 9:04 am to Napoleon
I had no idea people didn't know this. The type of plane and airline dictate which seat I choose
Posted on 7/28/19 at 9:56 am to Napoleon
It blows my mind people don’t check what kind of plane the flights they’re looking at are.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:01 am to The Boat
quote:
It blows my mind people don’t check what kind of plane the flights they’re looking at are.
I only fly a couple or 3 routes where there is no choice anyway
It is either an RJ with x number of seats or my Corolla.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:03 am to gthog61
I fly a decent amount and I don’t normally even bother.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:16 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Given an option, I'll take a 737. The 320 is a noisy airplane.
Can't say it has ever stopped from going someplace.
nonstops > *
Can't say it has ever stopped from going someplace.
nonstops > *
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:31 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Different planes have different amenities. Plus it’s nice to know how old the craft you’re getting on is. Delta out of MSY to Atlanta could put you on anything from an old MD-88 to a 737 (not max) to a 757.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 10:40 am to udtiger
quote:
The Max design is essentially not airworthy in the absence of ongoing and robust flight computers DESIGNED to overcome its deficiencies.
Same goes for every modern stealth fighter/bomber.
Without software and computers controlling the aircraft these things would never get off the ground much less fly.
Posted on 7/28/19 at 11:03 am to BHM
quote:Those planes also don’t fly with hundreds of paying customers. And they have ejection seats.
Same goes for every modern stealth fighter/bomber.
Without software and computers controlling the aircraft these things would never get off the ground much less fly.
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