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Message
re: 2019 Corvette ZR1 755hp
Posted on 11/13/17 at 2:42 pm to Tigerbythetale
Posted on 11/13/17 at 2:42 pm to Tigerbythetale
quote:
BoostAddict:
Unless one considers multiengine platforms or your definition of a supercar is based on straight line speed and acceleration, your post belies either ignorance or prejudice.
As posted ealier the 991 GT2 Porsche does own the speed record at The Ring.
But the chassis and suspension characteristics required to make that possible in a rear engine car yields a car the is undrivable on the street and even on the track requires a kidney belt because the ride stiffness is so strong
Go drive an Audi R-8 or a 458 Ferrari and you will understand te difference between horsepower, and a supercar.
So I take it your idea of a super car requires it to be a good daily. Take the R8 V10 Plus and 458. The 997 Turbo S is faster than both of them at the 'Ring, the 991 Turbo S is even faster but it is sprung like a GT car and by most metrics is a better daily than the R8 or 458.
Again a mid-rear engine car has advantages but they are subtle when compared to a mid-front engined car. The weight distribution naturally allows more traction off of the corner but the mid-front car naturally has the ability to carry more speed to the apex.
The biggest advantage for a mid-rear car is the exotic nature and the sound being generated closer to your ears. Clean slate and no budget limitations engineers will pick a mid-rear every time but as Porsche, Ferrari with most of the 12 cylinder cars and Chevy with their track day specials have shown engine layout is not the deciding factor on what is a supercar. Unless you don't see a GT2 or a 812 Superfast as super cars.
1
Posted on 11/13/17 at 2:52 pm to Old Money
I imagine he and most everyone else knows a 2.4l F1 V8 with a flat plane crank and high V angle idling at 3500 rpm is going to sound different than a long stroke cam in block SBC burbling at 750rpm but I just passed it off as a nod to the majestic sound of each.
BTW it is funny to hear someone call the F1 V8s old, though you may have meant it as non-current. When I think of old F1 engines I think of V8 Cosworths and V12 Ferraris prior to the first Turbo era.
BTW it is funny to hear someone call the F1 V8s old, though you may have meant it as non-current. When I think of old F1 engines I think of V8 Cosworths and V12 Ferraris prior to the first Turbo era.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 2:54 pm to Obtuse1
nothing like the roar of a Renault Gordini
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:06 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:09 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:18 pm to Old Money
Dreadful car but glorious 3l V12, maybe not as great in sound to the previous 3.5l but still nearly GOAT.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:19 pm to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Can't wait to see how it compares at Nurburgring to the 911 GT2 RS.
Saw on FB that a friend of a friend was looking to sell their spot for $250k LOL
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:21 pm to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Can't wait to see how it compares at Nurburgring to the 911 GT2 RS.
I imagine a lot of people are waiting for that. I say it breaks into the 6s but doesn't match the Huracan Performante or GT2 RS as long as they don't "cheat" on the tires, which Chevy has been known to do at the 'Ring. The other question is will they be able to run the stock exhaust or have to use those tips with the bends away from the 'Ring's sound sensors.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:22 pm to Obtuse1
Nope, can't take it to the woods.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:34 pm to Obtuse1
Obtuse1:
First ofcall I will stipulate that you are obviously well informed on this subject matter.
My comment was more directed towards the fact that since the first Corvette hit the street, their extreme front end weight bias made the cars frightening to drive at speed due to extreme understeer, especially on wet pavement. That has not changed.
Since you insist on bringing the venerable 911 to the party, mosey on over to your nearest Porsche dealer next time you get a good rainstorm and tell the sales rep you would like to test drive a 911 immediately.
Rep will ask you to please come back when the streets are dry. Why?
Because even with everything Porsche has done in over 60 plus years of chassis and suspension refinements to accomodate the extreme oversteer resulting from the rear engine configuration anyone but a seasoned trained race driver more likely as not will end up putting that test drive 911 in a ditch or worse!
Ask that same CBS to drive a Boxster or Cayman and they will be pulling keys for your test drive!
Bottom line , I prefer my performance supercar to be drivable on all weather conditions on normal street surfaces without finding blood in my urine the next day or hiring a professional racer to drive me around.
Truth be told only us wealthy OT Baws can justify the price for any of these speed machines when time spent at triple digit speeds is directly proportional to time spent locked up behind bars.
I`m just sayin...
First ofcall I will stipulate that you are obviously well informed on this subject matter.
My comment was more directed towards the fact that since the first Corvette hit the street, their extreme front end weight bias made the cars frightening to drive at speed due to extreme understeer, especially on wet pavement. That has not changed.
Since you insist on bringing the venerable 911 to the party, mosey on over to your nearest Porsche dealer next time you get a good rainstorm and tell the sales rep you would like to test drive a 911 immediately.
Rep will ask you to please come back when the streets are dry. Why?
Because even with everything Porsche has done in over 60 plus years of chassis and suspension refinements to accomodate the extreme oversteer resulting from the rear engine configuration anyone but a seasoned trained race driver more likely as not will end up putting that test drive 911 in a ditch or worse!
Ask that same CBS to drive a Boxster or Cayman and they will be pulling keys for your test drive!
Bottom line , I prefer my performance supercar to be drivable on all weather conditions on normal street surfaces without finding blood in my urine the next day or hiring a professional racer to drive me around.
Truth be told only us wealthy OT Baws can justify the price for any of these speed machines when time spent at triple digit speeds is directly proportional to time spent locked up behind bars.
I`m just sayin...
Posted on 11/13/17 at 3:55 pm to Tigerbythetale
quote:
Because even with everything Porsche has done in over 60 plus years of chassis and suspension refinements to accomodate the extreme oversteer resulting from the rear engine configuration anyone but a seasoned trained race driver more likely as not will end up putting that test drive 911 in a ditch or worse!
Hogwash. You have have to be REALLY pushing for this to be an issue. The last few trackdays I did in my 911 were in very wet conditions, and it still handled very well. Most people who drive "fast" have no idea how far they are from the limits. I was surprised how extreme it felt the first few times I put my car on the track. I've always driven fast, enjoy taking turns fast, etc. But when you're on the track, you're pushing so much harder - tires squealing around every turn, bracing to keep yourself in the seat, etc. You suddenly realize that you've never remotely tested your car on the streets. Wet or dry, the 911 handles fabulously and can handle anything an amateur driver can throw at it.
This post was edited on 11/13/17 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 11/13/17 at 4:02 pm to Traveler
quote:
Bilstein. The previous owner added the HD swaybars, OEM parts. He at one time was going to put a BB L71 in it but changed his mind after he did most of the suspension mods. Maybe I just need more cushion in the seat bottom
The bilsteins should be fine, in fact they are matched to most composite springs and are recommended by VBP. I'd take off the swaybar and see how it handles, I doubt you need it.
If I'm not mistaken, you are running the stock 15inch rallys? Despite have a shorter sidewall, my car handles and rode drastically better going from a 15 to 17's. MUCH less bounce as the 15's are more like a balloon in comparison. Newer rubber offers much less body roll and turn in is much improved.
I'm still on my original seats and cushions as well. I'm changing both this Winter.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 4:06 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
The other question is will they be able to run the stock exhaust or have to use those tips with the bends away from the 'Ring's sound sensors.
Laguna Seca Tips.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 4:19 pm to Tigerbythetale
quote:
Tigerbythetale
You are simply living in a time warp. The Corvette, evidenced by the Z06 is not a weight distribution nightmare, it is 50/50. It doesn't have the rear bias like many mid-rear engined cars like say a 458 at 42/58 so it has more issues with after apex power down but has more weight on the fronts pre-apex which can be good if the car is sprung correctly, the brake bias is right and you have enough mechanical grip in the front. Anyone that dismisses a Corvette on the track or on the road at sane speeds and proper tires even in the rain hasn't driven a current Vette.
The 911 comments are even more ridiculous. I've owned and tracked plenty of 911s back to the 993 days and after the 996 came in (except the 996 GT2) the snap oversteer issues were a memory. My last 911 (997 Turbo S) was at the time the archetype for the all-weather supercar. Plenty of guys in the north on Rennlist and 6speed daily their Turbos and Carrera 4s 12 months a year. The idea current 911s are a handful in the rain is non-sense even the 2wd layouts.
I know what you are saying is well established "conventional wisdom" but it is from the past and not germane to the current crop of cars. Personally, I don't like modern Corvettes but it doesn't mean I can't respect them.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 4:27 pm to s14suspense
quote:
Laguna Seca Tips.
Yep, probably the most known for them. It has been years since I drove there but was with a buddy from the Bay area and he had to lift going up the hill prior to 6 because we were at a 105db limit event.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 6:17 pm to Big Block Stingray
Yes, I'm still running the 15" Rally wheels on 60/235 & 60/245 BFG T/A's. Not much choices anymore with this size. Next time I'm underneath, I'll pull the rear bar off & see what difference it makes. The broken up roads around here don't offer much for comfort unfortunately.
Al Knoch did my seats back in 2005. Work was very good quality. I caught him at a car show and his group did them on sight after I removed them.
Al Knoch did my seats back in 2005. Work was very good quality. I caught him at a car show and his group did them on sight after I removed them.
This post was edited on 11/13/17 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 11/13/17 at 7:06 pm to Tigerbythetale
quote:
Go drive an Audi R-8 or a 458 Ferrari and you will understand te difference between horsepower, and a supercar.
I've driven both of those cars. Along with the 488, Huracan, Aventador, Gallardo, Mercedes AMG GT, Porsche 911 in many flavors... and a shitload of others. I like RWD with V8's on the track and my fastest time on a many track days has been in a Corvette.
The fact that you said the Corvette will never be viewed as a true performance car is bullshite and most people that actually drive know better.
Posted on 11/13/17 at 7:16 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I imagine a lot of people are waiting for that. I say it breaks into the 6s but doesn't match the Huracan Performante or GT2 RS as long as they don't "cheat" on the tires, which Chevy has been known to do at the 'Ring. The other question is will they be able to run the stock exhaust or have to use those tips with the bends away from the 'Ring's sound sensors.
Isn't that exactly the same thing Porsche has done with the GT2? Porsche & Michelin developed one off Pilot Cup 2 specifically for the GT2 (surely with the record run in mind).
Posted on 11/13/17 at 7:25 pm to Obtuse1
I came
Posted on 11/13/17 at 7:27 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
Isn't that exactly the same thing Porsche has done with the GT2? Porsche & Michelin developed one off Pilot Cup 2 specifically for the GT2 (surely with the record run in mind).
Absolutely not. Almost all supercars/hypercars are delivered with tires specifically engineered for the specific car now. Porsche has always tested their cars with the same rubber that you get when you pick yours up at the dealership, some manufacturers have been known to run different rubber at the 'Ring or in other performance testing (note I am sure Porsche has tested with numerous compounds but only releases numbers with as delivered equipment); The N2 Spec Cup tire on the GT2 is an excellent tire for the track but the car will be delivered with them. Where one fits in the pantheon of 'Ring times should be as delivered.
My point was Chevy has been "caught" releasing times using different tires than "stock".
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