re: 12 Steps vs other methods in recovery

You made the choice. That is the most important part. To keep making that choice is harder and that is true no matter which step you are on. I hope you make the right choices and that those choices lead to a happier life.

I do not buy the idea we are powerless and that a higher power will allow us to stop whatever our addiction is. It is still our choice. Is it fair that for some folks, the brain is wired to make that choice harder? No, but we have the choice and it is only ours.

There is a large body of evidence now looking at AA success rates, and the success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent. Most people don't seem to know that because it's not widely publicized.

No matter how many steps you have completed the choice one must make is still there for us. Certainly things like friends and family, therapy, sometimes pharmaceuticals and other things can help us make that choice. But it is still our choice.

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NONE of the various programs, by themselves, can 100% keep you sober... of course it's your choice.... AA is just one of the various ways people can choose to live by new principles, to do something different than what they were doing before....

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I understand nothing is 100 percent but many are far better than five to ten percent.

Some of the more successful programs do not require you to stop drinking.

LINK

It keeps one from being a white knuckle alcoholic always keeping count and fear of one drink. It is not illogical as people with food, sex and other addictions recover even without going cold turkey for life.

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I want to continue since so many swear by it, but I just don't feel it, it's hard for me to go in on something when I'm not completely sold on it.

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It works if you work it.

I'm in the middle of step 2, I'm pretty agnostic so the high power thing has been a struggle. But oddly enough that you post this thread. It kinda slapped me in the face last weekend. Oddly enough listening to Matthew Perry's book. So now my Higher Power sounds like Chandler Bing. My own self-conscious in a way is my Higher Power for now, if that helps you find one.

Luckily, I caught myself in this disease before things got bad. I viewed my life as myself on the edge of the Grand Canyon with a feather blew me over the edge.

But life is good now.

I've oddly already made all my amends and have big plans ahead and am the happiest I have ever been.

The pink cloud is pretty nice up here at 118 days sober, so I hope I stay up here for awhile.

I am a member of AA. It’s changed my life. I have a great group of friends. It’s all about finding the right sponsor, the right meetings, and allowing the 12 steps to change your life. Be honest and willing to change. Godspeed.

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Everyone needs to learn how to live being bored,

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I don’t have many gifts. But having fun w nothing to do is my superpower. It’s when I am busy as hell I get restless

Never did the steps, but went to meetings for a couple months. I wasn't a true addict I guess, but a terrible drinker. I drank to get drunk-drnk and did it often enough. I could "quit" anytime, but always convinced myself I could handle it and would drink again. It eventually affected my family and scared me to go to meetings. I live in a very nice area and lucked out to walk into a meeting full of successful people that looked and sounded like me. Again, I didn't do the steps, but it was helpful to listen and talk and get through that rough patch. Over two years without a drink and I'd say listening and talking there gave me the clear mindset to realize I had to completely quit and life would be not only be alright, but better.

I did try other meetings closer to my work, etc. and it felt like what you see on TV filled with degenerates, haha. Still some strong people, but I didn't click there. I don't know if the steps work, but like minded people striving for the same goal was a great help getting through that time.

I do not doubt that for some folks a 12 step program may be what works. But I do doubt it works for most.

Who is in more control? The guy who goes to his niece's wedding and has a glass of champagne or none but not a bottle of Wild Turkey or the guy who thinks he should stay home because there is an open bar and he is "powerless over alcohol"?

Who is more stressed? The guy who meets his friends at the bar to watch a game and has a few beers or none instead of a case or the guy holding on to his one year chip so hard his knuckles are white and he is afraid to even think about going because he is "powerless over alcohol"?

In my opinion, 12 step programs have a high failure rate for the same reason extreme dieting does. It leads to binges for both rather than learning to control alcohol or food rather than having it in charge.

I have little doubt that peer support helps. I have little doubt that spirituality helps. I do believe making an honest evalaution of one's life is important as is making amends for our actions. But praying to God will not help if we have not accepted that God gave us the free will to make such a decision and that it is up to us and not God to control our actions on this earth. God will not remove our defects/ God will not remove our shortcomings. God will not restore our sanity. We must make the choices to get to the right place.

The Sober Truth

The Surprising Failure Rate of 12 step programs

The Sober Truth about AA

12 Step Treatment revisited

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or the guy who thinks he should stay home because there is an open bar and he is "powerless over alcohol"?

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I don’t know anyone in a program that stays home because they are afraid drinks will be around. If so, they are definitely not in AA because more than once it warns against this type of thinking. Indeed, AA actually guarantees those thinking like this are doomed to failure.

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In my opinion, 12 step programs have a high failure rate for the same reason extreme dieting does.

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I think even the most ardent of 12-step program supporters agree that it has a high failure rate. It is not nearly as high as the willpower rate of failure it sounds like you are suggesting. Addicts and alcoholics have remarkable willpower and it is pretty much useless against using or drinking.

12-step programs have gotten more people sober and kept more people sober than any other method of recovery, combined. It is not fool proof, but it has given relief to a lot of people.

Nothing is universal. Not AA, not religion, not spirituality, not support groups, not meetings, not hobbies, not boredom, not meditation, not journaling, not willpower. It takes a combination of things for most and even with a combination of things, most will go back out and many will die. It is just a fact.

If there's one area I'm educated in it is this. The steps are about having a spiritual awakening, hence "as THE result of the steps." To me I realized my thoughts aren't always fact and sometimes I shouldn't act on them. If you need someone to chat with I'm here and would share my email with you if you need to chat

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That statement is saying you believe there is no real recovery

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I fully believe in recovery. I have seen it in a lot of people and it is real. Anyone that believes it takes willpower alone for recovery doesn’t know much about addiction. Addicts and alcoholics have remarkable willpower. It does no good against their addiction. Over and over and over again they wake up or go to bed saying they won’t drink or use. And over and over and over again that willpower fails them almost universally. Willpower, without more. has almost 100% failure rate for a real alcoholic or true addict.