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Posted on 3/7/24 at 6:19 pm to Cell of Awareness
quote:
I do not buy the idea we are powerless
Then you’ve never been truly addicted to a drug - whether it be alcohol or heroin or benzos or whatever. You’ve never been at a point where you know if talk to that person, go in that house, put that needle in your arm that you’ll lose absolutely everything. You know that it’s no longer enjoyable and the consequences are unbearably high, you know exactly what will happen and yet you do it anyways. You’re a slave to, saying "no" simply isn’t possible.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 6:31 pm to Cell of Awareness
quote:
I understand nothing is 100 percent but many are far better than five to ten percent.
Some of the more successful programs do not require you to stop drinking.
LINK
This sounds like a program for non-alcoholics who have decided they drink too much and want to drink less. For true addicts ( I really don’t like the phrase "alcoholics and addicts", we are all addicts - we just have different DOC's and those with alcohol as theirs just have a name for it) moderation is simply not an option. The cliche saying "one is too many and a thousand is never enough" absolutely is true. Once that demon is awakened there’s nothing that can be done, there’s no off switch that lets you say I’ve had enough.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 6:48 pm to Cell of Awareness
quote:
I do not doubt that for some folks a 12 step program may be what works. But I do doubt it works for most.
Who is in more control? The guy who goes to his niece's wedding and has a glass of champagne or none but not a bottle of Wild Turkey or the guy who thinks he should stay home because there is an open bar and he is "powerless over alcohol"?
Who is more stressed? The guy who meets his friends at the bar to watch a game and has a few beers or none instead of a case or the guy holding on to his one year chip so hard his knuckles are white and he is afraid to even think about going because he is "powerless over alcohol"?
The people you describe aren’t true addicts "of the hopeless variety" as the book describes it. I think the disconnect is that even if you’ve had issues with alcohol or other drugs you aren’t an addict. Your brain is wired differently so that a single drink might be a possibility for you. For the people in the rooms one glass of champagne or a couple beers simply isn’t possible, like I said above they don’t have an off switch.
quote:
In my opinion, 12 step programs have a high failure rate for the same reason extreme dieting does. It leads to binges for both rather than learning to control alcohol or food rather than having it in charge
The success rate for people getting sober is indeed very low unfortunately. And you’re right 12 step programs aren’t the only approach to recovery, but they are the ones with a track record of helping the most people achieve sobriety.
And food addiction, while it absolutely is a thing, is imo a different beast altogether.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:14 pm to HoustonChick86
quote:
HoustonChick86
welcome to the club, ma'am...
Posted on 3/7/24 at 9:21 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Yep. I’ve had many substances I struggled with over the years but IV heroin / fent is my DOC and what got me into 6 treatment facilities
had no idea.... i guess i feel like everyone shares their story as much as i do, and i've been around quite a while, as you have as well, so i figured i would have picked up on that before, but i guess not....
same with HoustonChick... would have never guessed
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:23 pm to chRxis
Yep. I’ve talked about it a few times on here. Seems like each relapse is worse and worse. I lost literally everything this last run. ODed during it and the cops and paramedics showed ups.
I just remembered coming to and sitting up right as four sheriffs walked in. They asked what I took and I told them shot fent so he said "ok I need to squirt this up your nose ". I asked what and he said Narcan so I flipped out telling him hell no, I’m awake breathing talking to you and I don’t want to go into rapid (worst feeling in the world). He said I had two options, either let him give me Narcan or go to jail. Fvck. So I let him… Either they didn’t know how to use it or he was purposely trying to make it as painful for me as he could just being an a-hole. I dunno
My parents don’t seem to understand what I’m dealing with. Each go around they seem to be grappling with it a little more but still I can tell they just don’t get it m which honestly is good. I don’t want them to get it because it’s hell. My counselor told me they were going to Al-Anon which I guess is good.
I just remembered coming to and sitting up right as four sheriffs walked in. They asked what I took and I told them shot fent so he said "ok I need to squirt this up your nose ". I asked what and he said Narcan so I flipped out telling him hell no, I’m awake breathing talking to you and I don’t want to go into rapid (worst feeling in the world). He said I had two options, either let him give me Narcan or go to jail. Fvck. So I let him… Either they didn’t know how to use it or he was purposely trying to make it as painful for me as he could just being an a-hole. I dunno
My parents don’t seem to understand what I’m dealing with. Each go around they seem to be grappling with it a little more but still I can tell they just don’t get it m which honestly is good. I don’t want them to get it because it’s hell. My counselor told me they were going to Al-Anon which I guess is good.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:31 pm to Cell of Awareness
quote:
There is a large body of evidence now looking at AA success rates, and the success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent. Most people don't seem to know that because it's not widely publicized
I wonder what they consider an "AA attempt". One meeting? Five meetings? Attempting the steps? Completing the steps? As I said earlier I'm a member of AA but that doesn't mean I believe it's the only way to stay sober or even the best
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:41 pm to Cell of Awareness
quote:
Who is in more control? The guy who goes to his niece's wedding and has a glass of champagne or none but not a bottle of Wild Turkey or the guy who thinks he should stay home because there is an open bar and he is "powerless over alcohol"? Who is more stressed? The guy who meets his friends at the bar to watch a game and has a few beers or none instead of a case or the guy holding on to his one year chip so hard his knuckles are white and he is afraid to even think about going because he is "powerless over alcohol"?
Well yea but what if like many of the people who find themselves in this predicament you find yourself unable to be the first guy and end up being a third guy who is blackout drunk at the wedding or bar making a fool of himself and worse? If we could manage to drink responsibly we'd absolutely prefer to be the first guy but it's become clear that most of us (by us I mean people who consider themselves alcoholics/addicts) absolutely can't drink responsibly
There may be some recovery methods out there that have enabled some true alcoholics to drink responsibly but they sure aren't very well known or talked about so
quote:
I don’t know anyone in a program that stays home because they are afraid drinks will be around. If so, they are definitely not in AA because more than once it warns against this type of thinking. Indeed, AA actually guarantees those thinking like this are doomed to failure.
This^
And this:
quote:
In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed. So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.
--AA Big Book page 101
This post was edited on 3/7/24 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:43 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Always good to know not only am I not alone but there’s a biggggg fellowship. Today marks another day of sobriety for this guy, thank you guys for all the advice.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 10:49 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Monroe has a fantastic sober community. Something like 150 sober houses, meetings going on nonstop all day everyday, and hundreds of people in recovery so meeting new friends in recovery is extremely easy
I agree. I went to Palmetto and stayed in a Sober Living house in West Monroe. My time in NE Louisiana was a just a chapter in my life but a very critical chapter.
Posted on 3/7/24 at 11:55 pm to supadave3
Great TED Talk that I watched numerous times in treatment and it never gets old. I encourage everyone to give it a watch, he explains addiction and recovery in a way that really makes a lot of sense. There was a study called Rat Park done and the presentation explains that, the Vietnam war, Portugal etc with a great explantion of what’s needed for a truly effective recovery being meaningful commenctions of the addicts back into society.
Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong | Johann Hari | TED
I feel like it should be required viewing for policy makers dealing with handling addiction and honestly would be beneficial viewing for society in general. So if you have a free 15 minutes definitely give it a watch.
Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong | Johann Hari | TED
I feel like it should be required viewing for policy makers dealing with handling addiction and honestly would be beneficial viewing for society in general. So if you have a free 15 minutes definitely give it a watch.
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:04 am to DavidTheGnome
How old are you parents by the way?
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:14 am to Sao
Not sure, 65ish? Both have been retired for a few years.
When I ODed this last time I was at their house and they found me laying on the ground coming out of the bathroom with a rig beside me. Looking back it makes me feel shitty, I can’t imagine finding my son or daughter lifeless on the ground with a needle dropped by them.
When I ODed this last time I was at their house and they found me laying on the ground coming out of the bathroom with a rig beside me. Looking back it makes me feel shitty, I can’t imagine finding my son or daughter lifeless on the ground with a needle dropped by them.
This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 12:20 am
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:36 am to DavidTheGnome
I've read a lot of what you've written ITT. Like this
Just a word of advice or something to think about... They're past an age they need to "get you". You're of an age you need to pick a lane, not them. I'm a bit older than you of course but at 53, both mine are now gone. Each needed end of years care/help and of the 3 kids, I was in state and equipped to step in. So, I'm hoping you see their lives do depend on you, if needed. And it's your job to prepare yourself to help family, when needed. They've likely loved, cried and cussed enough as have you. Don't keep score and prepare yourself for your second half of life while giving them their last 15% back. Sitting around waiting for each Rubicon to be crossed - theirs and yours - is a massive waste of time. Be the good son and man you need to be. GL
quote:
My parents don’t seem to understand what I’m dealing with. Each go around they seem to be grappling with it a little more but still I can tell they just don’t get it m which honestly is good. I don’t want them to get it because it’s hell. My counselor told me they were going to Al-Anon which I guess is good.
Just a word of advice or something to think about... They're past an age they need to "get you". You're of an age you need to pick a lane, not them. I'm a bit older than you of course but at 53, both mine are now gone. Each needed end of years care/help and of the 3 kids, I was in state and equipped to step in. So, I'm hoping you see their lives do depend on you, if needed. And it's your job to prepare yourself to help family, when needed. They've likely loved, cried and cussed enough as have you. Don't keep score and prepare yourself for your second half of life while giving them their last 15% back. Sitting around waiting for each Rubicon to be crossed - theirs and yours - is a massive waste of time. Be the good son and man you need to be. GL
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:50 am to TN Tygah
Interesting this thread came up today
Have 10+ months
Much love to all of you making it happen
Have 10+ months
Much love to all of you making it happen
Posted on 3/8/24 at 1:38 am to Sao
Thanks I appreciate it. My brother and his family live right down the road from them and have their heads on right and can provide the care for them they’ll eventually need better than I can, for sure right now at least.
I can’t go to their house either, have been banned from there which I don’t blame them. Since going back into treatment they started helping me out a little which was much needed and appreciated.
The story is more com than that but would take forever to get into it all. For instance my dad and I have never got along, he’s always favored my brother even before my addiction problems. It finally exploded at the end of last year and laid it out how I felt growing up, completely unloved by him and emotionally abused. He knew he did it but was in law enforcement and would always blame his job and the stress of it for his behavior at the house. Finally told him I was sick of that excuse over and over, there’s plenty of people with stressful jobs who aren’t complete assholes to their families. I think ultimately he’s insecure about himself.
The way he treats mom is disgusting, ordering her around and talking down to her as if she’s stupid - especially when there’s other people around. As if it somehow makes him more manly if he bosses her around in front of them and calls her inept and stupid etc which creates extremely uncomfortable situations, it’s obvious the ones he’s talking to cringe and can’t believe what they’re hearing. I’ve had to take my children home plenty of times to get them away from that because I refuse to have my son think that is a normal or okay way to treat his wife or my daughter think that is a normal or acceptable way for her husband to treat her. And my mom is actually extremely intelligent. Valedictorian and always the top of her classes and got a degree in pharmacy and is just extremely smart in general. She’s almost left him several times over this but never does because she’s scared he’d kill himself if left alone and as smart as she is still is highly religious and this he’s supposed to be submissive to her husband etc.
He I think recognizes all his flaws but doesn’t know how to deal with them, especially in a way that fits his absurd "manly man" trope he feels like he has to fit into. And he recognizes how he’s treated me throughout my life and I see little bubbles of him trying to appologize and show me he cares but unfortunately it always involves just throwing me a little money. There’s not any thought given beyond that and as broke as I am money isn’t what I want. If I talk to my mom about it she just clams up because of how beat down she is. To the point she literally feels like she can’t make even the most basic decisions without consulting him and getting his approval, and of course he has to come in and show her how to do whatever even though even the most brain dead person would intuitively get whatever it is, and while explaining of course makes sure she realizes how stupid she is and needs him to function at all.
Anyways not sure where all this came from but I guess has been a little therapeutic for me to vent it out.
TLDR; my family is fvcked up, not just me
I can’t go to their house either, have been banned from there which I don’t blame them. Since going back into treatment they started helping me out a little which was much needed and appreciated.
The story is more com than that but would take forever to get into it all. For instance my dad and I have never got along, he’s always favored my brother even before my addiction problems. It finally exploded at the end of last year and laid it out how I felt growing up, completely unloved by him and emotionally abused. He knew he did it but was in law enforcement and would always blame his job and the stress of it for his behavior at the house. Finally told him I was sick of that excuse over and over, there’s plenty of people with stressful jobs who aren’t complete assholes to their families. I think ultimately he’s insecure about himself.
The way he treats mom is disgusting, ordering her around and talking down to her as if she’s stupid - especially when there’s other people around. As if it somehow makes him more manly if he bosses her around in front of them and calls her inept and stupid etc which creates extremely uncomfortable situations, it’s obvious the ones he’s talking to cringe and can’t believe what they’re hearing. I’ve had to take my children home plenty of times to get them away from that because I refuse to have my son think that is a normal or okay way to treat his wife or my daughter think that is a normal or acceptable way for her husband to treat her. And my mom is actually extremely intelligent. Valedictorian and always the top of her classes and got a degree in pharmacy and is just extremely smart in general. She’s almost left him several times over this but never does because she’s scared he’d kill himself if left alone and as smart as she is still is highly religious and this he’s supposed to be submissive to her husband etc.
He I think recognizes all his flaws but doesn’t know how to deal with them, especially in a way that fits his absurd "manly man" trope he feels like he has to fit into. And he recognizes how he’s treated me throughout my life and I see little bubbles of him trying to appologize and show me he cares but unfortunately it always involves just throwing me a little money. There’s not any thought given beyond that and as broke as I am money isn’t what I want. If I talk to my mom about it she just clams up because of how beat down she is. To the point she literally feels like she can’t make even the most basic decisions without consulting him and getting his approval, and of course he has to come in and show her how to do whatever even though even the most brain dead person would intuitively get whatever it is, and while explaining of course makes sure she realizes how stupid she is and needs him to function at all.
Anyways not sure where all this came from but I guess has been a little therapeutic for me to vent it out.
TLDR; my family is fvcked up, not just me
Posted on 3/8/24 at 1:52 am to DavidTheGnome
Going to quote this so you can't run from it. Read that again and again. And again. I'm not going to judge or make light. We can see why you're upset but, self-destruction isn't fixing you, or Him.
quote:
Thanks I appreciate it. My brother and his family live right down the road from them and have their heads on right and can provide the care for them they’ll eventually need better than I can, for sure right now at least.
I can’t go to their house either, have been banned from there which I don’t blame them. Since going back into treatment they started helping me out a little which was much needed and appreciated.
The story is more com than that but would take forever to get into it all. For instance my dad and I have never got along, he’s always favored my brother even before my addiction problems. It finally exploded at the end of last year and laid it out how I felt growing up, completely unloved by him and emotionally abused. He knew he did it but was in law enforcement and would always blame his job and the stress of it for his behavior at the house. Finally told him I was sick of that excuse over and over, there’s plenty of people with stressful jobs who aren’t complete assholes to their families. I think ultimately he’s insecure about himself.
The way he treats mom is disgusting, ordering her around and talking down to her as if she’s stupid - especially when there’s other people around. As if it somehow makes him more manly if he bosses her around in front of them and calls her inept and stupid etc which creates extremely uncomfortable situations, it’s obvious the ones he’s talking to cringe and can’t believe what they’re hearing. I’ve had to take my children home plenty of times to get them away from that because I refuse to have my son think that is a normal or okay way to treat his wife or my daughter think that is a normal or acceptable way for her husband to treat her. And my mom is actually extremely intelligent. Valedictorian and always the top of her classes and got a degree in pharmacy and is just extremely smart in general. She’s almost left him several times over this but never does because she’s scared he’d kill himself if left alone and as smart as she is still is highly religious and this he’s supposed to be submissive to her husband etc.
He I think recognizes all his flaws but doesn’t know how to deal with them, especially in a way that fits his absurd "manly man" trope he feels like he has to fit into. And he recognizes how he’s treated me throughout my life and I see little bubbles of him trying to appologize and show me he cares but unfortunately it always involves just throwing me a little money. There’s not any thought given beyond that and as broke as I am money isn’t what I want. If I talk to my mom about it she just clams up because of how beat down she is. To the point she literally feels like she can’t make even the most basic decisions without consulting him and getting his approval, and of course he has to come in and show her how to do whatever even though even the most brain dead person would intuitively get whatever it is, and while explaining of course makes sure she realizes how stupid she is and needs him to function at all.
Anyways not sure where all this came from but I guess has been a little therapeutic for me to vent it out.
TLDR; my family is fvcked up, not just me
This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 2:06 am
Posted on 3/8/24 at 2:25 am to Sao
Agreed. My dad isn’t the reason I use drugs though. But it is something that I somehow have to learn to deal with and I don’t know how. Especially since I love my mom and still want her in my life. And I feel like I need to stand up to my dad for her sake, but truthfully she doesn’t want me to. Not because she doesn’t think she is being treated with the dignity and respect she deserves, but she’s terrified of making him mad and told me as much.
Unfortunately my brother isn’t any help. More and more I see him be having like my dad. Taking down to his wife etc.
I dunno it just really bothers me but I don’t know how to deal with it or if I’m overstepping my boundaries and need to focus on myself. Something I need to definitely talk to my sponsor about but I’m currently looking for a new one (last one got a promotion and just doesn’t have the time
Unfortunately my brother isn’t any help. More and more I see him be having like my dad. Taking down to his wife etc.
I dunno it just really bothers me but I don’t know how to deal with it or if I’m overstepping my boundaries and need to focus on myself. Something I need to definitely talk to my sponsor about but I’m currently looking for a new one (last one got a promotion and just doesn’t have the time
Posted on 3/8/24 at 4:10 am to magildachunks
I somewhat agree to a point. You will definitely get bored and there's no stopping that. Maybe I worded it wrong. Im not sure about embracing it, bc when i started thinking crazy shite I had the discipline to get my arse up and go on a walk or go to the gym,Just to occupy my mind.I can Definitely see your point as well. Ive been good for years and have CML and have alot of pain. I started taking kratom for a yr or so Viva Zen shots worked the best for me. I then realized it was becoming a habit. It was a bitch to stop that shite. Worse than getting off oxy. I went through 30 days of hell with a benzo addiction. Godbless anyone with any addiction, but benzos trump all other shite and ive done my fair share of alot of other shite. From coke, xtc, most psychedelics, etc.
Nothing touches prescription meds, especially if the doctor tells you that you need them. My advice for the most part is deal with your shite and frick the dr.
I cant speak on alcohol bc ive never liked it like that. I drink maybe 1 or 2 times a year if that. I didnt have a drink at all last year.
Godluck to anyone struggling with any addiction or just life itself. Life is hard and there will always be ups and downs. In the end be as happy as possible bc at 18 I blinked and now Im 50! Time is precious and is the most valuable thing on the planet, not gold or money or anything like that. Enjoy every second of every minute when possible.
Nothing touches prescription meds, especially if the doctor tells you that you need them. My advice for the most part is deal with your shite and frick the dr.
I cant speak on alcohol bc ive never liked it like that. I drink maybe 1 or 2 times a year if that. I didnt have a drink at all last year.
Godluck to anyone struggling with any addiction or just life itself. Life is hard and there will always be ups and downs. In the end be as happy as possible bc at 18 I blinked and now Im 50! Time is precious and is the most valuable thing on the planet, not gold or money or anything like that. Enjoy every second of every minute when possible.
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