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re: Mickey’s “borrow from the future” philosophy is flawed according to AI

Posted on 3/14/25 at 8:14 am to
Posted by Sunnyvale
Member since Feb 2024
2393 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 8:14 am to
The Majority of Americans are doing that with their diets, Borrowing from the future and it isnt working.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62133 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 8:55 am to
quote:

Every player kept has retained a value worth keeping.



Huh?
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62133 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 8:58 am to
quote:

Every player kept has retained a value worth keeping.



Ramczyk has value worth keeping?
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
176234 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Ramczyk has value worth keeping?


he's not being kept now is he.
Posted by fwtex
Member since Nov 2019
3261 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 11:52 am to
quote:

Loomis goes too far with it.


I am curious if Loomis runs his personal finances the same. His strategy on the cap is very similar to how some people use credit cards to buy what they cannot afford. His cap strategy makes the saints pay more for players because the dead cap paid for players no longer on the team, or no longer productive at that cap value, is like a high interest rate on debt.

Its similar to our national debt in a smaller scale. You have limited budget and when you push over that budget, you eventually have to pay it. So now, just like our national debt where we pay $1 trillion annually just to interest, the saints are paying $60 million of their allocated cap to dead money (interest) borrowed from past years.

Some people say is just book money, but it's not. Its money you do not have to "buy" what you need and forces you to make due with what you can afford ... Like broken down car and ramen noodles dinners.
This post was edited on 3/14/25 at 11:56 am
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4932 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

His cap strategy makes the saints pay more for players because the dead cap paid for players no longer on the team
This part is just not true, and often because the last year is for the biggest base salary, we come out cheaper than what the player's per year was since the final year's base is very seldom guaranteed.

Now if you want to argue what you said right after, it does make SOME players harder to cut when their production starts dipping, but this is a rare case and not the norm for the majority of the players.
Posted by fwtex
Member since Nov 2019
3261 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 12:47 pm to
quote:

This part is just not true, and often because the last year is for the biggest base salary, we come out cheaper than what the player's per year was since the final year's base is very seldom guaranteed.


This is nonsensical because there has never been a player under Loomis term thats play in the last year is worth the money paid. You have to include the dead cap that will be added after that player is no longer on the roster.

Do you think Carr would be on this team today if his cap hit was not $60 million? No way would he be, and not because he is a poor performing player, but because of the ability to reallocate his cap savings to other more productive players. Cam Jordan is another player that would not be on the roster today if his cap was not a detriment. Every year for the last 5+ years this team has carried players on the roster because they could not absorb the cap hit.
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4932 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 1:19 pm to
People ignore the front years being so cheap, which is why the dead money is so high.

It LITERALLY balances out because they aren't getting new money when they restructure, and more often than not we come out ahead on what the apy would have been if we cut them on that last year.

Just for instance, Carr's cap hits so far:
2023- 7.2 mil
2024- 12.7 mil
2025- 20.5 mil

All of those are FAR lower than his apy, but no one talks about that, only the back end, which is just an evening out of things.

Anyone complaining about dead money hits is either being obtuse or is extremely ignorant to how the cap and contracts actually work.

Edit:
To take this even further, if we cut him post June 1st next year, his final hits will be:

2026- 19.2 mil
2027- 40.5 mil

That means he would have made dead on 33 mil per year played for us (100 mil over 3 years played), while his original total apy was 37.5 mil apy. So cutting him next year would put him below his original apy.
This post was edited on 3/14/25 at 1:24 pm
Posted by Chad504boy
4 posts
Member since Feb 2005
176234 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 1:22 pm to
Saints are 6th in dead monies this year. There’s 8 w over 40 million dead monies. People act like it’s only Mickey doing these manipulations.
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4932 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 1:31 pm to
I'll blow their little minds even further Chad. In addition to being 4.5 mil less on the cap per year played than his original apy, he will also have only been on the cap for 20 mil per year on the cap (100 mil over 5 years), which means we were able to fit a lot more in on those front years while he was playing than we otherwise would have, AND when he is gone* the cap is much higher, so we are able to absorb the dead money hits more easily than if his contract was a straight 37 mil every year.

So we can save over his original apy, and carry a smaller % hit on the cap every single year than we otherwise would have.

*if a June 1st cut next year
This post was edited on 3/14/25 at 1:33 pm
Posted by GynoSandberg
Bay St Louis, MS
Member since Jan 2006
73966 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

Saints are 6th in dead monies this year. There’s 8 w over 40 million dead monies. People act like it’s only Mickey doing these manipulations.


SF, SEA, PHI, JAX, CLE, NYJ

That’s some good company to be in, I don’t see the issue
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4932 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 2:00 pm to
Last bit of cap/economic knowledge to drop.

Current cap dollars are always worth more than future cap dollars (as long as the cap goes up). Anyone familiar with economics knows that the higher amount of currency you have, the lower it's value is. So as the cap goes up, each dollar means less.

This is why borrowing from future years (cap dollars at lesser value) and bringing them to the current year (cap dollars have more value) is always the smart thing to do IF you understand how to budget the dollars in those years you are borrowing from (which is why some teams fail at this while we have been doing it well over a decade).

Edit:
In that same vein, this is also why every team now backloads contracts, to varying degrees, because the dollars on the earlier years matter MUCH more than the ones on the latter years. As long as you understand how to manage the latter years (which not all teams do, and why they get into actual cap trouble, not pretend trouble like us where we can flip 50 mil negative to 50 mil positive year after year like nothing), the bigger the backload quite often the better.

But we are once again top in class when it comes to this practice. We started far ahead on both major cap borrowing and backloading compared to most teams and do it more effortlessly than anyone else.
This post was edited on 3/14/25 at 2:11 pm
Posted by High Life
Member since Dec 2014
3678 posts
Posted on 3/14/25 at 10:16 pm to
quote:

But we are once again top in class when it comes to this practice.


Sure doesn’t feel like it. I feel like this strategy has led to some very poor decisions. Loomis feels like he has to make something happen now. He refuses to start over. No one is asking him to burn it down but you have to reset and build for the future. We’ve been waiting for years now.
Posted by Townedrunkard
Member since Jan 2019
13920 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 2:02 am to
quote:

I feel like this strategy has led to some very poor decisions


It’s a great strategy for not being able to afford young players that you drafted and developed but can’t compete with fair market deals from other teams so then have to sign cheaper older players in the twilight of their careers.

But we’re the best in the class at it….
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 9:51 am
Posted by High Life
Member since Dec 2014
3678 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 11:00 am to
quote:

But we’re the best in the class at it….


Haha yea no one can do it like us!!
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
72956 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

Chad is an idiot when it comes to these things.
You could have stopped writing after the first four words.
Posted by Da #1 Stunna
985
Member since Oct 2012
1851 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 11:41 am to
I don't need AI to tell me that Mickey Loomis is a complete jackass and has no clue how to do his job without crippling our organization.

Posted by MMauler
Primary This RINO Traitor
Member since Jun 2013
23917 posts
Posted on 3/17/25 at 7:04 pm to
When you’re really close to having a Super Bowl team, with a bunch of studs, and, in particular, a stud quarterback, then borrowing from the future is a good idea to make a run.

No one was really complaining when we went into salary cap hell to make that last run with Drew Brees at quarterback. It was going to set us back for a few years, but we did almost make the Super Bowl. Hell without the damn referees doing the NFL‘s bidding against the Rams, we would’ve been in a Super Bowl.

However, once that failed, it was time to rebuild. Instead, this nimrod f*cking moron Loomis kept borrowing from the future to put us in salary cap hell for f*cking eternity. Now, we are a 5-12 team with no studs and no f*cking future.
Posted by TigerSooner
Member since Nov 2023
3611 posts
Posted on 3/29/25 at 9:00 am to
Everything Loony does is flawed. He's too stupid to be successful.
Posted by BigTigerJoe
Member since Aug 2022
11430 posts
Posted on 3/29/25 at 9:19 am to
My opinion of AI is garbage in and garbage out. AI is only as good or bad as the social engineering programmers.
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