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re: Windhorst's Hoop Collective podcast discusses Jrue Holiday trades
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:32 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:32 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:Those proposed deals suck.
On the latest Hoops collective they talk about trades for Paul, Oladipo, Beal, and Holiday.
They made it clear they were not breaking news at all. They talked to agents and executives just to get a gauge on if guys get moved what perceived value could be and what teams would be sniffing for each guy.
Windhorst says he is not convinced the Pelicans will move him, but that it is an option because of the contract etc. (duh)
Windhorst thinks he would be VERY valuable, and the guys specifically discussed:
The Nets: Levert, Prince, "young guy" not named Allen, Philly 2020 1st for JJ and Jrue...two of the guys said that was too light for us without Allen. They think he would be massively appealing to the Nets and could be a difference maker for them. They thought if the Pels pushed hard enough the Nets are in a position where they will have to give us pretty much whatever we want given their stars age etc.
Denver: Harris, Bol Bol, Houston 1st, Denver future 1st (2025ish). Again, other guys thought Brooklyn was infinitely more attractive in a package...duh, that package sucks. Nuggets have made it clear that MPJ "isn't available" so they think it would be difficult to make it happen.
They also thought Jrue could make sense to Dallas (Hardaway involved in it)
Obviously this is nothing earth shattering and already things we have discussed at length. Just thought everyone would want to know what was discussed.
I did not listen to the rest of the podcast so I don't have a clue if they discussed us being in play for the other guys (I doubt they did).
1
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:34 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Dude Joe harris is just a lesser version of Josh Hart.
Someone has not watched a lot of Joe Harris.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:46 pm to Bronc
I could see Philly jumping in and offering anything outside of Simmons and Embiid that we would want.
Jrue and JJ for Horford, Richardson, #21 and 2-4 future 1sts (depending on how much Griffin can con out of them for taking Horford) would be a damn good deal, and I would prefer Richardson over Levert
Jrue and JJ for Horford, Richardson, #21 and 2-4 future 1sts (depending on how much Griffin can con out of them for taking Horford) would be a damn good deal, and I would prefer Richardson over Levert
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:46 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Harris is a Free Agent anyway. We can just sign him if we plan on moving JJ. If we don’t move JJ till the trade deadline, then he will probably get signed by someone else. I don’t see Brooklyn resigning him considering their salary books, unless they have his Bird rights?....I’m not certain
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:48 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I'd rather a mid season trade if it's going to happen
Same here. I seem to be the only one but MPJ just doesnt do it for me. I dont see his ceiling being as high as other people do. I might be completely off on that but right now he is basically a sit in the corner guy and doesnt show much versatility.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:54 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Those proposed deals suck.
Yea, how can they say “very valuable “ then come up with that crap
Posted on 10/19/20 at 12:58 pm to TechTiger
quote:
unless they have his Bird rights?
There are potential tax issues, so if he gets a crazy deal from someone else they might not match it, but they have his Bird Rights and do want him back.
quote:
There is a growing sentiment around the league that The Brooklyn Nets will sign Joe Harris to a long term contract this summer. Alex Schiffer of the Athletic (subscription required) stated that he doesn’t see a scenario where the team lets Harris walk during a question and answer article last week.
LINK /
quote:
Harris, their top priority in free agency, has been a dagger scorer in Orlando, averaging 20 points on 62 percent shooting in the seeding games.
LINK /
Posted on 10/19/20 at 1:07 pm to Fun Bunch
That Denver trade is trash
The Nets trade would have to include Allen, especially if they are including both Jrue and JJ.
ETA: Bontemps and Windhorst both said a better trade would be Harris, Morris, and MPJ for Jrue
The Nets trade would have to include Allen, especially if they are including both Jrue and JJ.
ETA: Bontemps and Windhorst both said a better trade would be Harris, Morris, and MPJ for Jrue
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 10/19/20 at 1:12 pm to Fun Bunch
Also, did you hear any of their proposals that included sign and trades combined with other players?
Posted on 10/19/20 at 1:58 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
I have watched a good bit of Joe. He's a solid player and I actually have vouched to get him on here in the past.
He's a free agent so the list of players I typed is still accurate for a Jrue or JJ trade to the Nets.
Lesser version of Hart was a little dramatic but we still don't know Hart's ceiling and Hart can play a similar role Harris plays while we need more help at the defensive 3 > Harris at the 2.
He's a free agent so the list of players I typed is still accurate for a Jrue or JJ trade to the Nets.
Lesser version of Hart was a little dramatic but we still don't know Hart's ceiling and Hart can play a similar role Harris plays while we need more help at the defensive 3 > Harris at the 2.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:08 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
I'd rather keep Jrue if that's the trade packages, especially Denver's. With that deal he's basically treating Jrue as a salary dump.
Yeah all those packages suck. MPJ is the start and finisher in any package involving Denver. They won't trade him unless they really believe Jrue is the piece they are missing to win a championship.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:15 pm to Baron
If you take a look at the Nets salary they have no choice but to ship out 1-2 of Prince, LaVert, or Dinwiddie if they want a 3rd star.
I also don't think their backup PG behind someone making 35 million will stop them from trading for that 3rd star.
If Jrue is traded to the Nets we are 100% getting 1 of Dinwiddie or LaVert.
I also don't think their backup PG behind someone making 35 million will stop them from trading for that 3rd star.
If Jrue is traded to the Nets we are 100% getting 1 of Dinwiddie or LaVert.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:20 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Lesser version of Hart was a little dramatic but we still don't know Hart's ceiling
Hart isn't part of the equation, I love me some Josh Hart and don't want Harris to replace him. Harris would be taking over the spacer role of JJ, because while this team has competent 3 point shooting, JJ is the only 3 point shooter that scares teams. Harris shot 42% from 3 on 6.9 3PA per 36 last season. He shot 47% from 3 on 6.1 per 36 the season before.
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:27 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
'd rather a mid season trade if it's going to happen
Why would Brooklyn give us more mid season than right now?
His value goes down once the season starts.
And why would Joe Harris be involved with a trade where they get back JJ? They don't need JJ if they have Harris.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Why would Brooklyn give us more mid season than right now?
Because if they think Jrue's defense takes them to the next level now, why would that change mid season? Maybe you have to get Jrue to agree to opt in, but would Jrue really turn down the chance to play with Kyrie and KD and under Steve Nash? If Jrue leaves the Pels it's more likely to be for a better chance at winning than a payday. Where is he going to have a better chance at winning than with the Nets?
quote:
why would Joe Harris be involved with a trade where they get back JJ? They don't need JJ if they have Harris.
For the same reason they wanted DeAndre Jordan starting at center.
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:35 pm to TigerinATL
I guess I didn't mention that Windhorst said we had "discussions" with the Nets back in February about Jrue but inferred that it was just cursory discussions.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:45 pm to TigerinATL
Harris first 3 years:
.369 3pt% 1.6 attempts
.385 3pt% 4.3 attempts
.419 3pt% 4.6 attempts
Hart first 3 years:
.396 3pt% 3.1 attempts
.336 3pt% 4.1 attempts
.342 3pt% 5.4 attempts
Harris was out for a year so he technically had an extra year of maturity for that 3rd stat.
Why can't Hart follow a similar path here? Hart still hasn't had a defined roll and I think his shot can get better.
Harris didn't take off til his last 2 seasons with a .474 3pt% and .424 3pt%. Its also the first 2 years he was an actual starter and played 76 games then 69 games.
He will also be paid very well soon and Hart will be on a better contract with plenty of ceiling.
.369 3pt% 1.6 attempts
.385 3pt% 4.3 attempts
.419 3pt% 4.6 attempts
Hart first 3 years:
.396 3pt% 3.1 attempts
.336 3pt% 4.1 attempts
.342 3pt% 5.4 attempts
Harris was out for a year so he technically had an extra year of maturity for that 3rd stat.
Why can't Hart follow a similar path here? Hart still hasn't had a defined roll and I think his shot can get better.
Harris didn't take off til his last 2 seasons with a .474 3pt% and .424 3pt%. Its also the first 2 years he was an actual starter and played 76 games then 69 games.
He will also be paid very well soon and Hart will be on a better contract with plenty of ceiling.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:49 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Why can't Hart follow a similar path here?
I would love that, but especially if we end up trading Jrue, Hart's our best defender. He can't be the guy running around on offense bending the opposing defense if he's also the guy we're asking to guard top wings. Harris and Hart can both be on the team and get good minutes in very different roles.
This post was edited on 10/19/20 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:52 pm to TigerinATL
b/c adding someone mid season that is that pivotal to the team is something you'd much rather do in the offseason.
It's not like adding JJ to the team b/c you need another shooter. Adding a 3rd star is something that can really mess with the flow of how everyone plays.
They could also think mid season that they don't really need him, or they may think they need him even more than they do now. I would think it would be in our best interest, and the Nets, to get a deal done now, and i'd without a doubt do one to get back to firsts, Allen, Prince, and either Dinwiddie or LeVert. I've explained many times how Allen can still be a floor spacer with Zion, but that requires us to have a PG, or primary ball handler that can run a pick and roll with him really efficiently.
Joe Harris is 29, not 20 like Jarret Allen was, and he's a much better defender than Redick is.
It's not like adding JJ to the team b/c you need another shooter. Adding a 3rd star is something that can really mess with the flow of how everyone plays.
They could also think mid season that they don't really need him, or they may think they need him even more than they do now. I would think it would be in our best interest, and the Nets, to get a deal done now, and i'd without a doubt do one to get back to firsts, Allen, Prince, and either Dinwiddie or LeVert. I've explained many times how Allen can still be a floor spacer with Zion, but that requires us to have a PG, or primary ball handler that can run a pick and roll with him really efficiently.
quote:
For the same reason they wanted DeAndre Jordan starting at center.
Joe Harris is 29, not 20 like Jarret Allen was, and he's a much better defender than Redick is.
Posted on 10/19/20 at 2:56 pm to TeddyPadillac
What I'm saying is I think Hart can be good enough to replace JJ, while also being solid on D and being able to get to the basket. Then we can get a defensive SF or other position of need.
I don't think we necessarily are going to trade any player for the exact position. If we trade JJ then we have Jrue and Hart at SG. It might be better to trade him for a PG or SF. If we trade Lonzo we might want to move Jrue to 1 and BI to 2 and draft a different position. If we trade Jrue then we will probably get a SG but what if there is a C or SF we want? Just food for thought. Trades could be made for other moves not just for that exact player.
I don't think we necessarily are going to trade any player for the exact position. If we trade JJ then we have Jrue and Hart at SG. It might be better to trade him for a PG or SF. If we trade Lonzo we might want to move Jrue to 1 and BI to 2 and draft a different position. If we trade Jrue then we will probably get a SG but what if there is a C or SF we want? Just food for thought. Trades could be made for other moves not just for that exact player.
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