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re: Who we picking at 8?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:21 am to saints5021
Posted on 5/18/22 at 5:21 am to saints5021
we dont need to overthink this. Take Mathurin and put him next to Trey for the next 5 years.
Mathurin can do _ at a high level:
Off-ball movement
Off-Screen 3PT
Drive and Finishing
You have a crew of
Jose
Mathurin
Tr3y
Jaxson (assuming he is still here)
Larry
Thats one hell of a bench
Mathurin can do _ at a high level:
Off-ball movement
Off-Screen 3PT
Drive and Finishing
You have a crew of
Jose
Mathurin
Tr3y
Jaxson (assuming he is still here)
Larry
Thats one hell of a bench
1
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:11 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Mathy is a bit flashier, probably a bit riskier because he hasn’t been good defensively yet. No reason he can’t be a good defender with his length, athleticism, and toughness.
Yes he has more athleticism and is a better 3 point shooter now so he easily has a better ceiling. He reminds me a lot of Wiggins.
I just think Davis has the easier skill to develop (shooting v. dribbling/playmaking). Davis also has a lower ceiling b/c he's not a plus athlete (But that's why I called him Harden-lite, b/c Harden isn't a plus athlete, either).
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:12 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
we dont need to overthink this. Take Mathurin and put him next to Trey for the next 5 years.
Mathurin and Trey have a lot of overlap, though.
quote:
Jose
Mathurin
Tr3y
Jaxson (assuming he is still here)
Larry
You're leaving a lot of playmaking duties to Jose in that lineup. That's the issue. None of those other guys can dribble.
Trey/Mathurin would fit better as starters, which they don't really fit in right now.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You're leaving a lot of playmaking duties to Jose in that lineup.
How many minutes do you expect all of CJ, BI, and Zion to be off the floor at the same time? Hell, even Herb showed some flashes of being able to initiate the offense..
Not sure why we as armchair GMs always separate Starters and Bench into two squads that exclusively play together
Just keep stacking guys who can play multiple positions and can shoot. If Trey gets hurt Mathurin can slot right in
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:49 am to SlowFlowPro
I am happy with any pick, but my two favorites are Mathurin and Davis.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:53 am to Macintosh504
quote:
Ivey to Kings doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s another Haliburton situation all over again
Yeah. I don't get why he keeps getting mocked there, other than BPA. Murray makes the most sense for them. If I'm Detroit, I look to do a swap with them during the draft, if Ivey falls to 4. He is the perfect fit for them, next to Cunningham.
I'm also curious what the Blazers have planned. They have a max slot to add a big FA (Beal, Lavine, Harden or Irving). They need an instant impact player and front court depth. Duren fills a big need but is very raw. They might be looking to drop back..
Posted on 5/18/22 at 7:56 am to A Menace to Sobriety
If Mathy is there at 8 and we don’t take him, I think I’ll be pissed.
Has the ability to be a role player early and develop into a star.
And he’s a fit as he’s a big guard who can shoot.
Sure Daniels and Davis can play defense in college and the g league but they are going to be bottom 20 percentile athletes in the nba. So can’t be 100% sure that translates.
Matthy might actually be a better defensive prospect in the pros. He just might need some coaching up.
Has the ability to be a role player early and develop into a star.
And he’s a fit as he’s a big guard who can shoot.
Sure Daniels and Davis can play defense in college and the g league but they are going to be bottom 20 percentile athletes in the nba. So can’t be 100% sure that translates.
Matthy might actually be a better defensive prospect in the pros. He just might need some coaching up.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:09 am to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
Sure Daniels and Davis can play defense in college and the g league but they are going to be bottom 20 percentile athletes in the nba.
I don't think Davis is THAT bad of an athlete. Probably more like midrange.
quote:
Matthy might actually be a better defensive prospect in the pros.
He is but not showing anything positive defensively in 2 years in college is a big red flag. Tons of guys CAN be good at defense.
You can make Mathurin as good of a player as you want. He's very similar to Wiggins in his athleticism and body, and people saw Wiggins as a superstar prospect. The problem is you have to project a lot of things he has had plenty of time to show and hasn't (like defense, dribbling, etc.).
I just feel Mathurin is much more likely to end up similar to Trey. A guy who will have value but his flaws will always make him a role player. He has all the potential in the world, though. Davis has a much lower ceiling in terms of being a superstar but has a much higher floor as an overall player. Davis is going to hang around the NBA for a long time. The question is how much of that time is as a starter on a good team.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:12 am to 3PieceSpicy
Between Willie coaching and whoever we draft being 9th in the rotation at best, I would think you could convince them to play defense. If they don’t they won’t see the court unless it’s in the GLeague.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:30 am to eyeran
quote:
As long as we don't trade back, and/or take Duren/Williams, im good.
that's pretty much how i feel.
i like most of the guys in that 8 range.
i personally would rank our possible targets as
Mathurin
Branham
Davis
Griffin
don't think Sharpe or Ivey will be there when we pick, Murray probably won't either.
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 8:37 am
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:32 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
don't think Sharpe or Ivey will be there when we pick, Murray probably won't either.
I agree. I said earlier my rankings will likely flip around but I'm:
Davis
Mathurin
Branham
Griffin
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:36 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Between Willie coaching and whoever we draft being 9th in the rotation at best, I would think you could convince them to play defense. If they don’t they won’t see the court unless it’s in the GLeague.
This is one of the big things with Mathurin, he’s very lackadaisical and not focused defensively. He is lazy on ball, doesn’t even bother to get into a true stance often (sometimes literally just stands straight up). Even when he does get into a stance he’s flat footed and shys away from contact. He’s dreadful at getting around screens, which in the NBA is a huge red flag. He commits bad shooting and reach in fouls when he’s beat.
And that’s just the on ball stuff, off ball he’s worse. He’s consistently lost, lacks instincts to play passing lanes or make help side rotations at the rim, misses your ordinary very vanilla rotations. A lot of it just has to do with the lack of focus and lack of instincts.
It’s why I would bet on Griffin being atleast a solid defender, Griffin competes, he’s smart and has shown a good growth in understanding rotations and help defense, along with instincts to make rim rotations and play passing lanes.
All this to say if they draft Mathurin, which is a definite possibility, the chances of him getting on the court as a rookie are slim because of his defensive shortcomings.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 8:55 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
All this to say if they draft Mathurin, which is a definite possibility, the chances of him getting on the court as a rookie are slim because of his defensive shortcomings.
not sure why this has to be said every single year, but if he can't get on the court as a rookie as the #8 pick, then he's probably a gigantic bust b/c every top 8 pick is given ample minutes his rookie year. Also, the #8 pick is not going to play in the G-league at any moment his rookie year, b/c no one drafted in the top 10 goes play in the g-league, and if they do, they're going to be a bust. The G-League is not where top prospects go to get better. It's where role players go to hone in on specific skills they've been asked to get better at. Trey Murphy is a role player.
Everyone drafted in the top 10 averaged over 28mpg last year except Kuminga with 17mpg and Zaire with 21mpg, and those were the two best teams record wise that picked in the top 10, and those were the two rawest picks in the draft that were expected to maybe not be ready in year 1.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:05 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
not sure why this has to be said every single year, but if he can't get on the court as a rookie as the #8 pick, then he's probably a gigantic bust b/c every top 8 pick is given ample minutes his rookie year. Also, the #8 pick is not going to play in the G-league at any moment his rookie year, b/c no one drafted in the top 10 goes play in the g-league, and if they do, they're going to be a bust. The G-League is not where top prospects go to get better. It's where role players go to hone in on specific skills they've been asked to get better at. Trey Murphy is a role player.
Everyone drafted in the top 10 averaged over 28mpg last year except Kuminga with 17mpg and Zaire with 21mpg, and those were the two best teams record wise that picked in the top 10, and those were the two rawest picks in the draft that were expected to maybe not be ready in year 1.
You missed the prior conversation. I would say most of us who are realistic know who ever is selected at 8 will likely not be a part of the rotation, at least not at first.
The point with Mathurin that we are discussing, is it seems the people who want Mathurin are the same people who think the 8th pick should be a main stay in the rotation. They're just doubling down by saying a guy like Mathurin, who is probably one of the most likely candidates we could pick at 8 that wouldn't see the court, is the guy they all want.
If they want a guy that can play immediately, Mathurin isn't it. THAT'S the point.
This post was edited on 5/18/22 at 9:06 am
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:06 am to TeddyPadillac
How many top 8 picks walk straight into a team which was in the playoffs the prior season?
It doesn’t tend to be a lot of them because 8th is the mid range of the lottery, which means the team they are going to generally has a lot of holes.
Detroit circa 2003 could have taken Melo, Bosh, Wade, etc, and few of them would have been getting huge minutes for them simply because they were that stacked and only ended up with the pick thanks to an old trade with the Grizzlies.
As it stands, they did get Darko and he did bust, but any guy taken at #2 that year wouldn’t have been in a normal situation for a pick that high.
It doesn’t tend to be a lot of them because 8th is the mid range of the lottery, which means the team they are going to generally has a lot of holes.
Detroit circa 2003 could have taken Melo, Bosh, Wade, etc, and few of them would have been getting huge minutes for them simply because they were that stacked and only ended up with the pick thanks to an old trade with the Grizzlies.
As it stands, they did get Darko and he did bust, but any guy taken at #2 that year wouldn’t have been in a normal situation for a pick that high.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:11 am to Macintosh504
I agree that Ivey and Fox aren't a great fit. Sharpe would be a much better fit, but does Sacramento want to take that risk?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:13 am to RUFshreve
Sacramento’s ownership and front office are dumb as hell from all indications.
Expecting them to make a really fricking stupid decision is usually a safe bet.
Expecting them to make a really fricking stupid decision is usually a safe bet.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:17 am to CP3forMVP
Why couldn't Mathurin play early in the season? His shooting would help our bench alot. He's a smart and hard working kid, who should pick up his role quickly.
I expect whoever we pick to play a bench role pretty early on. Unless it's someone like Ousmane Dieng.
I expect whoever we pick to play a bench role pretty early on. Unless it's someone like Ousmane Dieng.
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro
What is the case for Davis over Branham?
Posted on 5/18/22 at 9:19 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
If they want a guy that can play immediately, Mathurin isn't it. THAT'S the point.
I disagree A LOT
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