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re: The Official NBA Free Agency/Offseason Thread Update: MITCHELL TO CLE
Posted on 7/20/22 at 8:59 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 7/20/22 at 8:59 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
If I was an owner, I personally would see being a treadmill team as the worst possible outcome, especially if I was a small market.
Either be very good or suck.
I think that doing what Indiana did for many years (win just enough to make the playoffs every year, but never really contend) is probably a solid financial move.
What you don't want to do is what Sacramento did, which is suck and mess up your drafts so that you stay at the bottom for many years.
SAC is proof that bottoming out doesn't always work. You can get stuck down there.
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Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:00 am to Pelefraan 1
quote:
You need to put bums on seats when you're a small market team.
With the massive TV deals that isn't really as much the case anymore. I mean, you do need to eventually.
But the best way to do that is to be good.
And the best way to be good is to get a star player.
And the only way to get a star player if you're a small market is to draft them.
So...
If you're on the treadmill, blow it up, be bad for a year or two, hope to get lucky.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:00 am to Fun Bunch
Yep
And I think Spurs finally have come to that realization that just being a low seed/late lottery team puts them in the worst of both worlds.
But heck, if they get Wembanyama, and he somehow defies the odds of guys 7'2 or taller, franchise is gonna be right back on the ascension.
And I think Spurs finally have come to that realization that just being a low seed/late lottery team puts them in the worst of both worlds.
But heck, if they get Wembanyama, and he somehow defies the odds of guys 7'2 or taller, franchise is gonna be right back on the ascension.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:01 am to whatiknowsofar
Well you left out the part that kawhi demanded a trade because the spurs couldn’t attract top end talent merely months after CP chose to play in HOU over SAS 
HOU player no small part in the spurs demise (ie kawhi trade demand)
HOU player no small part in the spurs demise (ie kawhi trade demand) 
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:01 am to Pelefraan 1
Tanking is OK in the short term.
Problem is that you can’t be the Pittsburgh Pirates and basically serve as a farm team for the league for 20 years collecting luxury tax distributions.
If you aren’t winning, you have to be at least selling an illusion hope like OKC is. Not like the infamous 76ers rebuild where they were putrid while open about tanking.
Problem is that you can’t be the Pittsburgh Pirates and basically serve as a farm team for the league for 20 years collecting luxury tax distributions.
If you aren’t winning, you have to be at least selling an illusion hope like OKC is. Not like the infamous 76ers rebuild where they were putrid while open about tanking.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:02 am to Boomshockalocka
Did they get a ring for chasing Kawhi out of San Antonio?
Because that would be one more than they got in the Yao or Harden eras.
Because that would be one more than they got in the Yao or Harden eras.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:03 am to Bronc
One very borderline all star and no other guys who would start on a good team. That’s why they are where they are now.
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:04 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:07 am to teke184
quote:
If you aren’t winning, you have to be at least selling an illusion hope like OKC is. Not like the infamous 76ers rebuild where they were putrid while open about tanking.
Griff being the outlier, this seems to more and more be the standard operating model of tanking teams: Orlando, Houston, OKC.
Where if you are committing to a rebuild, you largely move off anyone not willing to be a part of that process, or that will be too good to allow you to bottom out a couple seasons, go full youth, accumulate picks and try and win with young guys knowing they'll fall short.
It at least gives fans the excitement of seeing a young team develop and try and win, and you can still maintain a winning culture cause you are trying to win, you just lack the talent to do it. Which is deliberate.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:08 am to teke184
Lots of luck goes into rings. The HOU never got the kinda luck that some of these other franchises have gotten in that time. It is not an indictment on a franchise to simply be unlucky. If more people realized this maybe we can put an end to “rings culture”
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:09 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:11 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
One very borderline all star and no other guys who would start on a good team. That’s why they are where they are now.
Name me the teams outside of Miami, Memphis, and Toronto that have had superior drafts from 2016 to 2021 when picking from the mid teens to late 20's?
Just give me a list, name those teams.
You either haven't thought this through and are going to need to admit your opinion needs some adjusting, or you know you're wrong and are deliberately trolling/obfuscating to avoid accountability
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:13 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:18 am to Bronc
Denver, obviously. Warriors. Some teams have had zero or very few picks in that range, so they should be excluded. They have not drafted difference makers beside Murray if you want to call him that, regardless of the slotting. And even when compared to other teams who drafted about they same spot, not good at all.
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:21 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:27 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Denver, obviously. Warriors
Denver, maybe due to Michael Porter Jr(assuming he can ever return to form). But besides that their best picks since 2016 outside the top 10 were Malik Beasley, Monte Morris, and Bones Hyland. So Spurs get the edge.
Warriors struck gold with Jordan Poole and Moody is promising but their non top 10 picks besides him are basically all fringe players or out of the league.
Spurs basically havent busted out except on 1 pick in the 11 to 29 range since 2016 and pulled a borderline all star from the pile.
How you can conclude they have stunk is a blatant perversion of reality.
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:28 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:28 am to Bronc
Stunk compared to the perception that the spurs are draft wizards. Absolutely.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:34 am to Bronc
Warriors, Pels, Hawks, Celtics (Robert Williams, Grant Williams, technically Bane), Grizzlies, Raptors, Nuggets, Mavericks (Brunson).
That’s 9 teams not in the lottery. There’s also 13/14 teams in the lottery with better draft picks and future roster construction than the Spurs. That’s also not including the other 7 teams that are better than the Spurs. They are easily the worst team in the league right now and for the next decade until proven otherwise.
That’s 9 teams not in the lottery. There’s also 13/14 teams in the lottery with better draft picks and future roster construction than the Spurs. That’s also not including the other 7 teams that are better than the Spurs. They are easily the worst team in the league right now and for the next decade until proven otherwise.
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:37 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:34 am to Boomshockalocka
quote:
Stunk compared to the perception that the spurs are draft wizards. Absolutely.
Thats not what you said that prompted this push back
quote:
They really don’t draft well,
When in fact, given the context they've drafted in, you are struggling to name more than 5 teams that have been better drafting in the late teens and twenties than the Spurs in the last 5ish years.
No one in this thread has called them wizards or the best in the business, but you have attempted to argue they are simply not good, and that's pretty far from the truth.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:36 am to Bronc
I don't know what he is talking about.
Johnson is better than Poole and will be scoring 20+ppg this year for the Spurs.
Vassell is a solid wing that will be elevating to 15+ppg and is a solid defender.
They love Primo who is super young and raw. They drafted him a year early and tried to develop him in lower levels but he played his way up. Tons of upside.
They has arguably the best draft this year with 3 prospects many had ranked top 20.
That is 4 solid years of drafting. How did they fail? How did the Warriors outdraft them?
Johnson is better than Poole and will be scoring 20+ppg this year for the Spurs.
Vassell is a solid wing that will be elevating to 15+ppg and is a solid defender.
They love Primo who is super young and raw. They drafted him a year early and tried to develop him in lower levels but he played his way up. Tons of upside.
They has arguably the best draft this year with 3 prospects many had ranked top 20.
That is 4 solid years of drafting. How did they fail? How did the Warriors outdraft them?
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:37 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Warriors
I'd accept the argument off the strength of Poole and Moody's flashes.
quote:
Pels,
Sorry, but no
quote:
Hawks
No
quote:
Celtics
Close but No
quote:
Memphis, Toronto, Miami
Yes
quote:
Dallas
No
This post was edited on 7/20/22 at 9:38 am
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:42 am to Bronc
Brunson is better than anyone on the Spurs
The Hawks drafted John Collins so you are actually half special if anyone on the Spurs is ranked higher than him.
Celtics players actually helped them move the needle.
Pels? Jose, Trey, and Herb aren’t comparable to the Spurs drafts??
You can’t say the best player on the worst team in the league average 20 ppg and compare their impact with rookies on championship caliber teams.
The Hawks drafted John Collins so you are actually half special if anyone on the Spurs is ranked higher than him.
Celtics players actually helped them move the needle.
Pels? Jose, Trey, and Herb aren’t comparable to the Spurs drafts??
You can’t say the best player on the worst team in the league average 20 ppg and compare their impact with rookies on championship caliber teams.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:43 am to Bronc
I should add HOU in there because they drafted better from worst spots
2014 - capela 25th
2015 - Harrell. 32nd
2016 - meh
2017 - hartenstein 43 Dillon brooks 45
2018 - Melton 46
2019-20 - no pick
This is the kinda of drafting that the spurs are credited with, but hasn’t been there.
Posted on 7/20/22 at 9:44 am to brmark70816
So you mention primo for the spurs but not moody for the Warriors.
Moody is nearly universally considered the better prospect.
Moody is nearly universally considered the better prospect.
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