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Started By
Message
re: Summer League Game Thread: Pels vs Hornets 6:30 PM CT
Posted on 7/13/23 at 8:58 pm to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 7/13/23 at 8:58 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Yet watch how people on this board will complain that its Willies fault in not playing Hawkins when we’re shooting 2-18 from three.
Our rotation is pretty deep and a lot of fan favorites will be ahead of him. So I don't think the complaints will be that loud...unless CJ is having an off night.
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Posted on 7/13/23 at 9:05 pm to Tigerpride18
quote:
Whitmore has 26 and a few assists and rebounds. Great on d too
I was on record in the draft thread along with a few others that he shoulda been the pick. Swing for the fences at 14.
I just don’t see this guy ever being better than someone like Kennard who could have been had for almost nothing.
This post was edited on 7/13/23 at 9:07 pm
Posted on 7/13/23 at 9:12 pm to Townedrunkard
Kennard honestly wasn’t even good for the Pistons team that drafted him. Still shocked they passed on Whitmore.
Posted on 7/13/23 at 9:33 pm to Pels_Yaz
I really wanted Whitmore when he dropped to us. But since Hawkins is the guy we drafted, we got to root for him. I like what Hawkins does by moving a lot and never staying at one spot. But man, he def needs to shoot better.
Posted on 7/13/23 at 10:01 pm to jamal
quote:
Dyson averaged just under 18 minutes a game last year. He’s already the second best defender on the team(Herb is 1st) and he might just pass Herb in that category. He’ll get at least 10 minutes.
Yea - you are right. And I do think Dyson will be a nice piece, however it is not a mistake he’s about the only high pick from 2022 still grinding our summer league minutes.
Hope Liddell proves me wrong, but I don’t see him in the rotation in 23-24
Posted on 7/13/23 at 10:07 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
Hope Liddell proves me wrong, but I don’t see him in the rotation in 23-24
I agree. He'll play in garbage time and in case of injury (and maybe in a game where a couple of our bigs get in early foul trouble). That's it.
I expect both he and Hawkins to start the season in Birmingham.
Posted on 7/13/23 at 10:18 pm to gerard07
Hawkins over whitmore will be similar to picking NAW/Hayes over Garland unfortunately
Posted on 7/13/23 at 10:20 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
however it is not a mistake he’s about the only high pick from 2022 still grinding our summer league minutes.
There are 10 lottery picks from the 2022 draft currently “grinding out summer league minutes”
Posted on 7/13/23 at 10:28 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
however it is not a mistake he’s about the only high pick from 2022 still grinding our summer league minutes.
He’s not grinding minutes. The broadcasters said several times that he was the best player on the court.
Do you not remember Trey playing in summer league his second year?
They’re using SL to work on Dyson running the offense and getting comfortable with the ball in his hands.
This post was edited on 7/13/23 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 7/14/23 at 12:49 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Kennard honestly wasn’t even good for the Pistons team that drafted him.
Think I read that Kennard was the top shooter in the nba last year. Even though his contract is overpriced, to get the best shooter in the league for peanuts compared to wasting a lottery pick hoping that he can at least turn out close to him was pretty stupid.
Loved the DD pick last year. Hawkins was pretty meh this year. Whitmore may bust out, but his ceiling is pretty high, and we passed on that. Don’t know what the hell Griff is doing, he rolls the dice on someone like Hayes but passes on Whitmore.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 12:54 am
Posted on 7/14/23 at 6:40 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
I also don't see how the G league would help hawkins.
A lot of people have talked about Hawkins shooting in SL, and rightfully so, but we aren’t focusing on his defense enough. It’s really really bad. Off ball and on ball. That’s why he will need live minutes in the G League.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 7:11 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Think I read that Kennard was the top shooter in the nba last year. Even though his contract is overpriced, to get the best shooter in the league for peanuts compared to wasting a lottery pick hoping that he can at least turn out close to him was pretty stupid.
This is what I’ve been screaming. This is why drafting for fit is so stupid. Hawkins will probably never be a better shooter than kennard, who was just traded for seconds. We lit a lottery pick on fire the second we drafted Hawkins
Posted on 7/14/23 at 8:39 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
This is what I’ve been screaming. This is why drafting for fit is so stupid. Hawkins will probably never be a better shooter than kennard, who was just traded for seconds. We lit a lottery pick on fire the second we drafted Hawkins
Malik Beasley, a guy who is similar to Hawkins, and has shot 38% from three on 7 attempts the last 5 seasons, just signed for the minimum as well. Hawkins will make $2.3M more than Beasley this season.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 8:44 am
Posted on 7/14/23 at 8:53 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
Malik Beasley, a guy who is similar to Hawkins, and has shot 38% from three on 7 attempts the last 5 seasons, just signed for the minimum as well.
With a legit contender in the Bucks. Don't act like the Pels, who missed the playoffs, could have gotten the same deal. Still, I think keeping Richardson on a cheap deal would have been a fine way to get a shooter that Willie would play. But he went to Miami, another contender, so were the Pels even an option for him?
I think one thing we aren't considering is maybe they used 14 was because they couldn't trade it for anything of value. As I hear you guys talk about the alternatives, there don't sound like a ton that would convince someone who was in the 20s to trade a future 1st to move up to 14.
I'm not saying Hawkins was a good pick, just that they felt the guy with the skill they needed and work ethic they trusted seemed like the best option available to them.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 8:55 am
Posted on 7/14/23 at 9:21 am to TigerinATL
quote:
With a legit contender in the Bucks. Don't act like the Pels, who missed the playoffs, could have gotten the same deal.
I've often spoken of the win share calculation, and how 99% of the time you can use it to dictate/determine what a players worth is. There's always a few outliers, but the vast majority of the the time it is in line with what a player earns. For example, just for the Pels it was in line with Herb, Nance, Jonas, CJ, and so on and so forth in recent years. For Beasley it projects a $4.6M deal, so to circle back around to the initial conversation, yes Beasley probably took a bit of a discount, but this is the point. Beasley is not a highly sought after player. Luke Kennard is not a highly sought after player. Guys that can shoot the basketball, but do not do anything else, like Hawkins, are not highly sought after players.
Bottom line is, like you said, they drafted for a skill, and not for the BPA, which is a terrible draft philosophy. Heck, honestly you could draft BPA or take a swing for the fences, either I would prefer and there were options to do both. By the time Hawkins is ready to go, if he even develops that much, they likely would have had numerous chances to acquire that skill set other than using a draft pick to get it.
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 9:29 am
Posted on 7/14/23 at 11:49 am to CP3forMVP
I was just joking on this thread that Hawkins supporters would use Steph/Trae as comps that they also had bad summer leagues and were fine. I was incorrect. The new comp for Hawkins is now Buddy Hield. We’ll hear how is trajectory will line up with Hield’s now lol
Posted on 7/14/23 at 11:55 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:Nah, it was just an example that proved a statement you made to be incorrect.
The new comp for Hawkins is now Buddy Hield. We’ll hear how is trajectory will line up with Hield’s now lol
This post was edited on 7/14/23 at 11:55 am
Posted on 7/14/23 at 11:59 am to shel311
Haha ok. I’ll eat my crow if Hawkins is even close to the impact player Buddy was in his rookie year- which wasn’t a huge impact considering he was traded and shined with a bad kings team. Tell yourself what you want I guess. Cheers.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 12:03 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:You're incorrectly asserting that I'm saying that Hawkins will definitely have a decent rookie year despite a bad SL when what I'm actually telling you is you were flatly wrong when you stated players don't have bad SL performances then become decent rookie role players.
Tell yourself what you want I guess. Cheers.
Posted on 7/14/23 at 12:13 pm to shel311
I never said that seriously bro. You’re assuming that from my argument off the other thread. I was stating to not completely dismiss his summer league performance and on our team which is deep with role players he will have a tough time finding minutes to be a decent rookie role player on this pels squad.
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