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re: Official 2018 Pelicans Offseason Thread

Posted on 9/17/18 at 10:05 am to
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 10:05 am to
1. He wouldn't be satisfied as 3rd banana

2. Would you like to pay your 3rd banana (if he does willingly take that) - 5 years and 180+ million? As he enters his 30s? With years of Thibs mileage on him?

Its always tempting to want to acquire more talent in the short term without really looking into the fit and opportunity costs in the long term. Personally, I'd prefer a lower usage guy because I love aggressive Jrue and I really think Randle will thrive in this system and will be extremely efficient, so why would I want to reduce his shot attempts?
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 10:06 am to
quote:

Payton and Jackson are two huge unknowns.

huge understatement and i'm not certain why its not a bigger concern amongst the pelisons. lets be charitable and say that payton is 50% of rondo...and its the good 50% not the bad. we STILL need another ball handler/decent shooter

lets also be charitable and say frank jackson is an actual NBA rotation player (we dont know because he's played about 15 minutes of actual competitive basketball including zero NBA minutes)...what does that look like? is he a facilitator? is he a shot creator? can he defend? what is his contribution?

we dont know shite about either of those two guys, and they are 1/2 of our guard rotation...

Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
21340 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 10:33 am to
quote:

we STILL need another ball handler/decent shooter


I'm really hoping Ian Clark is that guy, not that I expect it, but when he's on he's a legitimate 2nd pg.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 10:47 am to
quote:

I'm really hoping Ian Clark is that guy,

i think we know what clark is at this point...a guy that we would really dislike if he got more minutes/higher usage.

by PIPM (player impact per minute) last year (see nylon calculus for more info) ian clark was one of the 20 worst players in the league last year (-4.23). for comparison, jrue was +4.0. other guards in clark's range by this metric were mudiay, jamal crawford, liggins, bayless & monk.

LINK
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 11:27 am to
re butler, per shams:

quote:

There’s been a lot of uncertainty around Jimmy Butler all summer. He hasn’t been back to Minnesota. This is going to be a telltale week for him. Very much so, I’m told, this a last-ditch meeting for the Minnesota Timberwolves and Tom Thibodeau, and how they respond and how Jimmy responds to it will be interesting.

Karl-Anthony Towns, who’s one of the top talents in the league, has yet to sign to sign his rookie max extension, which should be a no-brainer. And I’m told there won’t be any decision on that until this Jimmy Butler situation resolves itself.

if they have to choose KAT or butler, you choose KAT 10/10

interesting thought...the wolves traded lavine, dunn & markkanen for butler. would the bulls trade those three to get him back?
This post was edited on 9/17/18 at 11:33 am
Posted by Hester Carries
Member since Sep 2012
22518 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

the wolves traded lavine, dunn & markkanen for butler. would the bulls trade those three to get him back?


I think the inclusion of markkanen kills that trade.
Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
21340 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 12:40 pm to
quote:


i think we know what clark is at this point...a guy that we would really dislike if he got more minutes/higher usage.


And I get that, but he was also a player that didnt have defined minutes for about 2/3rds of the season last year. iirc he even spoke about the lack of consistent minutes affecting his confidence level.

Your most likely right but I've seen enough of Clark's game to think there is a chance he can be a better player here with a more defined role.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

I've seen enough of Clark's game to think there is a chance he can be a better player here with a more defined role.

man i agree if his defined role is scoring threat off the bench, in spurts. if he's asked to bring up the ball and facilitate though...

also, consider that playing clark and jackson together may not be possible. now what?

i'm concerned about two things:
1) the offense may collapse without holiday on the floor
2) we may not get the best holiday when he's on the court because he will be so burdened with initiating the offense
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

the offense may collapse without holiday on the floor


Guard depth w/o Holiday has been atrocious the last few years. Nothing new here. Hope has to be Randle can keep things afloat largely on his own v 2s

quote:

we may not get the best holiday when he's on the court because he will be so burdened with initiating the offense



I'd really love to see someone sharp and with a lot of time on their hands break down how he was deployed post Cousins and how much of a dip there was in his creating/initiating offense.

His last 30+ games were spectacular. Figuring out what caused his play to jump and how likely he is to replicate it pretty much will define the Davis era.
This post was edited on 9/17/18 at 9:44 pm
Posted by Silverfoxx
Member since Mar 2016
880 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 9:55 pm to
He was given starter minutes. I been repeating how and why he should start
Posted by Pelefraan 1
Member since Jan 2018
6706 posts
Posted on 9/17/18 at 11:56 pm to
quote:

He was given starter minutes. I been repeating how and why he should start


Clark or Payton?
This post was edited on 9/17/18 at 11:57 pm
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/18/18 at 1:46 pm to
Squad 6 Season Ticket Holder Event – Thursday, 9/27
Time: 6:00pm – 8:00pm
Where: Smoothie King Center
Who: Full Season Ticket Holders only
Details: This will be our initial Squad 6 event where we will begin distributing the Squad 6 pullover you received for renewing for this upcoming season. Also, General Manager Dell Demps and Head Coach Alvin Gentry will be doing a “Chalk Talk” where they will give insights on the team and do a Q & A session with the fans.

Open Practice – Sunday, 10/7 (Saints play on MNF on 10/8)
Time: 11:00am
Where: Smoothie King Center
Who: Open to the public
Details: This is our annual open practice to get a full look at the team during practice and an inner-squad scrimmage.
Posted by CocoLoco
Member since Jan 2012
29108 posts
Posted on 9/18/18 at 2:13 pm to
So who do you have as the most likely targets by deadline?

Porter
Barnes

Someone else? Both are pretty expensive with Niko and Randle needing contracts.

Middleton and Prince would be my dream targets.


Maybe they go after a PG like Kemba.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25934 posts
Posted on 9/18/18 at 2:20 pm to
quote:

Maybe they go after a PG like Kemba.


Don't know if Kemba is that guy, but I wouldn't be opposed to going after a good PG, although I don't really know who i'd target. I personally want a PG that can play some defense and not be a liability there. Really not that worried about the offensive side. either be a good shooter or be a good distributor of the ball, either way, play some good defense, which is why I want Beverly.

I think if there's a SF out there to go after, it's Prince.
I'd give up two firsts for him, although I dont' know if Atlanta would even do that.
You have to figure if you can do that, you've got your team pretty much set for quite some time with AD/Jrue/Prince/Niko or Randall, so those picks aren't that important.
Finding a serviceable PG shouldn't be too hard with the MLE.

I would be elated if there was a way we could get Dinwiddie from Brooklyn and Prince from Atlanta and call it a day.
Dinwiddie
Jrue
Prince
Niko/Randall
AD

I like that lineup a lot.
Jrue can harass Steph. Dinwiddie is long enough and fast enough to chase and challenge Klay's shots. Prince can try to keep Durant from being effective, and it leaves AD to guard whoever else they put on the court that can't shoot so he can roam the paint.


another interesting SF to target may be Justice Winslow. He had a quietly good year last year. Doesn't shoot much, but he did shoot 38% from 3 last year, and is a very very good defender. I'd without a doubt take a flyer on him, and I think he'd excel playing at our faster pace. I doubt Miami has plans to resign him with their money situation and lack of being a contender with their payroll, so they might as well try to get something for him.
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 2:42 pm
Posted by Silverfoxx
Member since Mar 2016
880 posts
Posted on 9/18/18 at 3:20 pm to
I'm referring to Randle. He performed better and played with more effort as a starter.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/18/18 at 3:56 pm to
re prince...he's got this year and next (TO) on rookie scale, he's good/very good, and he plays every night. what player(s) will the hawks potentially draft with the pels' low-high 20's picks that will be better than that for a re-building team? maybe they package those picks for something better?

forget about him, there's nothing the hawks need that the pels have. they will be renting cap space for picks, not trading away low-cost young players.

re middleton, (you didnt metion him, but others have) i know i'm a broken record, but forget about him. bucks will max/near max him immediately.

re winslow...now you're talking. he will be an RFA after this year, and due a raise for no other reason than the position he plays (which is fine). MIA is at 119MM gtd salaray next season without ellington or winslow, and no real path to relief.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25934 posts
Posted on 9/19/18 at 8:22 am to
I know Winslow was a high pick, but i can't think it would take too much to get him, especially closer to the deadline.

Would you give up two firsts for Dragic/Winslow, sending out Solo/Ajinca? It does save Miami 4 million this year, and another 6 million next year. This assumes they would do that deal.
I don't see anyway they resign Winslow, so might as well get something. They are trending to being a middle of the pack team this year again, and no cap space next summer. They are really stuck in mediocrity until they can get rid of Whiteside's contract.


Fun stat about Spencer Dinwiddie i saw yesterday.
quote:

Dinwiddie has one of the quickest first steps in the game, as seen through Second Spectrum research. Last season, Dinwiddie recorded 212 blow-bys on drives, fifth most in the NBA. The only players ahead of him were James Harden, Dennis Schroder, Lou Williams and Russell Westbrook.



CJ Miles is another decent SF target. 2 years left at $8M. Toronto has a plethora of SF's with Kawhi/Green/Anunoby/Powell/Miles, and are deep into the tax.
Trading Ajinca for Miles saves them $3M this year, and whatever extra savings they get from lowering the tax bill, and $8M next year.
This post was edited on 9/19/18 at 9:37 am
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
39009 posts
Posted on 9/19/18 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Would you give up two firsts for Dragic/Winslow, sending out Solo/Ajinca?

the money doesnt match up on that trade...would have to also send out diallo or similar gtd salary.

lets say:

dragic/winslow for solo/ajinca/diallo/2019 1st & a 2020 pick swap?

i dont think i could say yes fast enough.
dragic matches up with AD's contract, and would start.
winslow would need a new deal, but would clearly start.
pels would be a tax team thru dragic's deal
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
25934 posts
Posted on 9/19/18 at 11:53 am to
quote:

the money doesnt match up on that trade...would have to also send out diallo or similar gtd salary.

we can take on extra salary in trades, they don't have to match up. that's one of the incentives we can offer to teams looking to cut money this year.

Would we be a tax team if we only signed one of Niko or Randall? Could always unload Moore to someone if they really wanted to stay out of it.
Dragic isn't the best of defenders, but if he's your 3rd wing guarding the weakest of the 3 on the other team, i'm ok with it.


I know Batum has been pretty phooey lately, but one thing about him, looking at stats, is he's been averaging nearly 6 assists the last 3 years. Really hate his contract but if we didn't have to give up a pick to get him, i'd be interested in the idea of adding him.
He'd be a SF that could defend, as well as handle the ball and facilitate the offense outside of Jrue.
Hill/Ajinca/OakfororMiller would be enough money to make it work. Saves Charlotte a ton of money but puts us in tax territory next 2 years.
If you got Batum and kept Moore, you could start both of them, and I think the offense could still flow without Jrue having to be the true PG.
This post was edited on 9/19/18 at 11:55 am
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5745 posts
Posted on 9/19/18 at 11:54 am to
Didn’t see it posted but Emeka got waived
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