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Started By
Message
re: New Orleans Pelicans are willing to part ways with Brandon Ingram in hopes of getting Dame
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:14 am to CelticDog
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:14 am to CelticDog
quote:
hate to break it to you but finishing games is in fact the way you tell the men from the boys.
Oh man I know. Especially OKC with their choke leads in the playoffs. The comeback from Warriors in that series that lead KD to leave and join them.
I was rooting for the Spurs and Ginobili could not hit a damn free throw at all. Ray Allen gets a pass from Bosh to hit that amazing 3 to go overtime and game 7.
The difference from them and us is that we are a team of young guys. Like the Suns when they kept choking leads and lost so many games by single digits. But look where they are now with great veteran leadership in Paul and Crowder. Just like ATL with Gallinari and Lou Williams.
Those choke jobs can be fixed with another year under our belt, hopefully a better coaching staff and a veteran we might be able to get in free agency. Like Derrick Rose who wouldn’t cost a lot or a rookie who can provide leadership skills.
quote:
gosh man. you cannot have one weak link to finish games. many pelicans are just learning a key function.
You can have weak links to finish games. You just need a ball handler to distribute and make the right decisions. Lillard , Mitchell are perfect examples of this.
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 8:20 am
2
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:17 am to duyp
yeah a competent coach who can get our guys to buy in and play hard (which SVG was terrible at) could do wonders for what we have right now
we just cannot afford another SVG-type disaster at coach, with or without Lillard
we just cannot afford another SVG-type disaster at coach, with or without Lillard
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and you get that window for MAYBE 3 years when you get it for almost a decade with BI
three years during Zion's years on pelicans.
good.
do it.
btw dame wants the shot with game on the line. unconscious. no mental or emotional obstruction.
ingram is self conscious.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:24 am to duyp
quote:
You just need a ball handler to distribute and make the right decisions.
was just going to post same thing.
pels so need your real pg.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:28 am to SlowFlowPro
BI+Bledsoe for Dame+Covington works in regards to salaries. We would obviously include picks to make it work in regards to value.
Dame-39.3
Lonzo-18 (estimated)
RoCo-12.9
Zion-10.7
Hayes-5.3
NAW-3.2
Adams-17
Hart-10 (estimated)
Kira-3.8
Naji-1.5
Didi-1.5
Iwundu-1.8
Gabriel-1.7
Willy-2
That's roughly 126 mil in salaries, the tax is estimated to be at ~136 mil.
That's a decently deep team, and we could still use the MLE and come in right at, or just below the luxury tax line.
Dame-39.3
Lonzo-18 (estimated)
RoCo-12.9
Zion-10.7
Hayes-5.3
NAW-3.2
Adams-17
Hart-10 (estimated)
Kira-3.8
Naji-1.5
Didi-1.5
Iwundu-1.8
Gabriel-1.7
Willy-2
That's roughly 126 mil in salaries, the tax is estimated to be at ~136 mil.
That's a decently deep team, and we could still use the MLE and come in right at, or just below the luxury tax line.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:31 am to CelticDog
quote:
btw dame wants the shot with game on the line. unconscious. no mental or emotional obstruction. ingram is self conscious.
Ingram is far from self conscious. Guy shoots a lot in the fourth and tried to take over games. Just that it doesn’t work out a lot in his favor because he isn’t great with distributing the ball and double teams. Also gets easily tired from working too damn hard in the 1H trying to get us points due to lack of spacing and play schemes.
There aren’t many forwards that can take over games like that besides KD, Tatum, Luka and Lebron. Even then they struggle to take over consecutive games since teams would rather have other players beat them. Zion can be that guy if he wanted to be but he needs to have an outside shot and shooters around him.
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 8:33 am
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:36 am to CelticDog
quote:
pels so need your real pg.
That is why Lowry was so sought out by many teams who were contending.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's unlikely to be repeated and a bad way to envision building a team. that's why this "reset" vision is stupid.
This is the only way to build a team in a small market. Look at what OKC does and why there’s rumors SGA is on the trading block. The only way to make it as a small market team is to win the lottery and get a star in the lottery. Then you have to go all in to win with them.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:44 am to CelticDog
quote:
hate to break it to you but finishing games is in fact the way you tell the men from the boys.
I don’t think people realize how young Ingram is. That will come with time, and last year was a great learning experience
Ingram is only 1.5yrs older right now than when Lillard made his nba debut. And he has 5 years in the league,
He’s shown a clear upwards trajectory. Y’all remember when y’all said he wouldn’t be able to shoot 3’s at the time of his trade? Yea, so give it time.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:46 am to duyp
quote:
Zion can be that guy if he wanted to be but he needs to have an outside shot
needs ordinary jumper.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:52 am to higgsBoson
quote:
The only way to make it as a small market team is to win the lottery and get a star in the lottery. Then you have to go all in to win with them.
When has this proven to be a championship formula?
More often than not, small market teams win the lottery and gets players like Davis, Zion, etc.. who immediately are thinking about where they want to play next. They'll do the song and dance and talk about how great New Orleans, Memphis, or Minneapolis are to live in, but they've already got their "circle" looking elsewhere
Winning the lottery getting a generational player in a small market is almost a curse more than a blessing, because from day 1 your "rebuild" is turned into "what's taking so long to compete!?"
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 8:57 am
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:54 am to jmcwhrter
12 page thread in 12 hours over a garbage scoop b tweet. amazing pel talk.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:55 am to Lester Earl
Ingram is entering his sixth year in the NBA. I didn’t see growth last season, I saw a plateau. I’m not saying he can’t improve. A jump to an alpha dog for a championship level team is a ton of improvement though.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it isn't enough to go from "out of the playoffs" to "top 3 seed" level, especially if we have to deal depth to make the salaries work
and you get that window for MAYBE 3 years when you get it for almost a decade with BI
Yeah this concerns me also. We aren’t going to be instant contenders by having Lillard and trading away Ingram. People undervalued Ingram so much on this board, it’s insane. I rather go the Philly route by building the team in house then giving up their war chest for players like Butler/Harris. OR just draft players like what the Hawks/Suns did and go for veterans who fits in their scheme. If we can somehow keep Ingram and have to give up a lot of picks for Damian Lillard. Yeah sure because that is a good trio to build around.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:02 am to ThePistol
quote:
Ingram is entering his sixth year in the NBA. I didn’t see growth last season, I saw a plateau. I’m not saying he can’t improve. A jump to an alpha dog for a championship level team is a ton of improvement though.
Ingram improved every year in the league until he ran into Van Gundy (and in smaller part, Griffin's broke dick roster). His defense was never great before, but I'm not gonna fault anyone from last year's team for not being able to execute SVG's "pack the paint then go chasing out after guys shooting 3s" scheme
Ingram was "bad in the crunch time" because defenses would key on him in crunch time. Teams tighten up in the 4th quarter, double team Ingram, pack the paint on Zion, and dare us to beat them with ANYONE else on the roster. As we saw more times than I can remember last year, we looked great for 3 quarters and then suck in the 4th.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:04 am to higgsBoson
quote:
Then you have to go all in to win with them.
I'm all for making a big deal but not for a 31 year old when we give up our 24 year old all star to do it
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:09 am to jmcwhrter
yeah it's hard to really describe how SVG was a disaster in many areas. he had a few rabbits that he pulled out of his arse but his overall strategy was only worse than his demeanor with the players
if we have even a slightly better coach and JJ/ Melli don't fall off the face of the earth unexpectedly, we make the playoffs
we built a roster expecting outside shooting that disappeared without an explanation. that made end of game situations VERY easy to coach against and it make BI look a lot worse than what he is
if we have even a slightly better coach and JJ/ Melli don't fall off the face of the earth unexpectedly, we make the playoffs
we built a roster expecting outside shooting that disappeared without an explanation. that made end of game situations VERY easy to coach against and it make BI look a lot worse than what he is
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 9:12 am
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:23 am to jmcwhrter
Ingram improved this year too. You just need to look beyond the basic box numbers.
He managed the same efficiency on worse looks due to poor spacing and defenses now respecting him much more. He was almost always doubled or had a teams best perimeter defender on him.
He added new wrinkles to his game including off dribble threes, one of the most deadly shots in the game, a skill that was basically non-existent before this season.
I would do everything in my power to keep Ingram in a Lillard deal, and I share the concern on trading him away if that is the cost. I think like often happens, people are way too quick to pile on blame and not realize how players improve. Ingram is a top 20 under 25 player and that isn’t something you just give up on because he isn’t Kobe Bryant at 23.
He managed the same efficiency on worse looks due to poor spacing and defenses now respecting him much more. He was almost always doubled or had a teams best perimeter defender on him.
He added new wrinkles to his game including off dribble threes, one of the most deadly shots in the game, a skill that was basically non-existent before this season.
I would do everything in my power to keep Ingram in a Lillard deal, and I share the concern on trading him away if that is the cost. I think like often happens, people are way too quick to pile on blame and not realize how players improve. Ingram is a top 20 under 25 player and that isn’t something you just give up on because he isn’t Kobe Bryant at 23.
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Even ignoring that, BI doesn't fit the role of a primary ball handler that this team needs. How else are the Pels going to fill that void? We don't have the luxury of time to wait around to see if Kira can do it. There are a couple other options outside of trading BI, that include trading a boat load of picks for SGA (if he's been made available), or a smaller number of picks for Sexton. Neither which are at the level of Dame, or even close to it really.
that made end of game situations VERY easy to coach against and it make BI look a lot worse than what he is
Posted on 6/28/21 at 9:34 am to Bronc
quote:
I would do everything in my power to keep Ingram in a Lillard deal, and I share the concern on trading him away if that is the cost. I think like often happens, people are way too quick to pile on blame and not realize how players improve. Ingram is a top 20 under 25 player and that isn’t something you just give up on because he isn’t Kobe Bryant at 23.
How are you going to match salaries if you don't trade Ingram?
You think Portland are going to be happy with Adams and Bledsoe as salary filler?
This post was edited on 6/28/21 at 9:35 am
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