re: New Orleans Pelicans are willing to part ways with Brandon Ingram in hopes of getting Dame

That's why a Dame deal means pushing in all the chips. It means making another deal for a top-50 player to win a title now. Maybe you actually keep Ingram and send that player to Portland in the trade. Maybe we have to give up NAW. Either way, it's a huge gamble, but it's one worth making.

As a franchise, we have never truly been real title contenders. This would do that.

I'd rather go after SGA - 22 year old (if they are willing to trade)

Gives us more flexibility as a younger asset and we would be able to keep Brandon Ingram

Then you make a move for a stretch 5, someone like Myles Turner (would have to give up some assets) or Al Horford (could trade Bledsoe/Adams and maybe a few picks

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That's why a Dame deal means pushing in all the chips. It means making another deal for a top-50 player to win a title now.

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that's what i'm kind of saying re: Ingram. giving up Ingram and the chest is too expensive for Lillard

Dame
Ball
Ingram
Zo
Hayes (?)

that's a contending starting 5 (and a tax team)

if we give up Ingram in the deal, we're spinning wheels.

Zion is gone in a year or two if we don’t make improvements. I’d rather take a swing and see if we can make it work than not even try. Even offering the Blazers 6 picks for Lillard leaves us with an average of 1 first a year. That’s a very salvageable situation. Trade Zion if he wants out and bang you have yourself another warchest. That’s obviously not the goal, but if Zion and Dame can’t be successful together then how good is Zion at the end of the day? Young boy says he wants to win, so lets go get him an alpha leader than can close games out like no other.

Dame
Zo
Hart or whoever we sign and trade him for
Zion
Hayes

NAW
NAJI
Didi
Wenyen?
Billy
MLE Player
2nd rd picks?
Vet min guys who want to play with Z and Dame

I think our team would be deeper than you think. And if it doesn’t work, who cares? Hit the reset in 3 years. That’s the life of being a fan of a small market team in the nba.

We had CP3 and instead of taking a big swing, we signed mo pete and james posey. And we lost Cp3. Guess what it worked out fine, we got AD.

We had AD and we took a big swing for Boogie. Freak injury occurred, and AD bitched out. Guess what that also worked out fine. We got Zion and BI.

Zion is here now and he’s ready to win now in year 3. BI is approaching year 6 and his biggest claim to fame career wise is having a career season while leading a team with Jrue, Redick, Favors, Lonzo, Hart to a 6-23 record.

I’m A okay with moving Kira, who is 2 years away from being an average player, Ingram, who is probably 2 years away from being a winning player, and 4-5 picks (most of which will probably be late) for Dame. Dame and Ingram aren’t equivalent players so trading Ingram in the package is not “spinning wheels”. Dame would have to regress wildly and Ingram would have to improve dramatically. Maybe they will be equal when Brandon is 30 and Dame is 39. Right now it’s not even close though and it’s tough to imagine Ingram ever being even 85% as good as Dame’s current peak.

In terms of older players being negative assets contract wise.

We’ve been hearing for years that CP3 is supposed to be a crazy negative asset yet when he went down in Houston, they couldn’t win. When he went to a 20 win roster in OKC, he carried them to the playoffs. When he went to a 30 win roster in Phoenix, he carried them to the WCF. There has also been a similar narrative about Russell Westbrook, but he also carried the Wash Wizards to the playoffs this year. When it was just Beal running the show, they were a bottom 3 team in the league.

Good players that help you win games aren’t negative assets. Also, y'all are acting like Dame is super reliant on athleticism. He’s got largely average athleticism as an nba point guard. What truly sets Dame apart is his shooting, ball handle, shot making, feel, bb iq, competitive spirit, leadership, and undeniable clutch gene. He’s going to age extremely well.

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I’d rather take a swing and see if we can make it work than not even try.

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there are other options than trading BI for Dame...or, hell, anyone

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Even offering the Blazers 6 picks for Lillard leaves us with an average of 1 first a year. That’s a very salvageable situation.

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it's not about the picks

it's about Ingram

Ingram alone is worth 3-5 1sts + swaps

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but if Zion and Dame can’t be successful together then how good is Zion at the end of the day?

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if the team is pretty much only Zion/Dame, it doesn't say much. again, that's why trading ingram is the big issue/discussion

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And if it doesn’t work, who cares? Hit the reset in 3 years.

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We had CP3 and instead of taking a big swing, we signed mo pete and james posey.

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whoa whoa whoa. posey sucks (and where i made my biggest mark on this board by calling that out loudly), but we were a c-hair away from the WCF with that team. we didn't need a "big swing" to get over the top

then Chandler got hurt and it was all over. like i said earlier, we're cursed with injuries

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We had AD and we took a big swing for Boogie. Freak injury occurred,

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again. cursed

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Guess what that also worked out fine. We got Zion

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we got Zion due to incredible luck, not Boogie getting hurt. we had the same thing happen with AD. that's unlikely to be repeated and a bad way to envision building a team. that's why this "reset" vision is stupid. we'll much more likely become the Cavs/T-Wolves and be in the top 6 every year b/c we can't get that sort of talent in the year when we have a top pick

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Ingram, who is probably 2 years away from being a winning player

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this emotional thinking about ingram and AD on this board is mesmerizing. it's becoming borderline cult-like groupthink

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We’ve been hearing for years that CP3 is supposed to be a crazy negative asset yet when he went down in Houston, they couldn’t win. When he went to a 20 win roster in OKC, he carried them to the playoffs. When he went to a 30 win roster in Phoenix, he carried them to the WCF.

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that is b/c of how great CP3 is historically. he's a better player than Lillard over his career and is an extreme outlier in terms of NBA history. i really hope he wins a title so many in the major media finally give him his due

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What truly sets Dame apart is his shooting, ball handle, shot making, feel, bb iq, competitive spirit, leadership, and undeniable clutch gene. He’s going to age extremely well.

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his athleticism and the threat of driving is a MAJOR part of his game. it makes his shooting better and gets him a ton of FTs and playmaking opportunities. when that goes, his scoring and assists are going to dip heavily

but, it's probably not even worth discussing with you. you've already posted your "out" (reset!) when you're wrong

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Zion is gone in a year or two if we don’t make improvements. I’d rather take a swing and see if we can make it work than not even try.

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You lost me there. Zion isn’t going anywhere in 1-2 years. We have him for another 3 years. No rookie superstar has ever left their team this early and Zion does not seem to be that guy. We aren’t even that bad compared to what you are saying. We have young guys who have been improving each year and we’re close to the playoffs if we didn’t had so many choke leads. You can see the team is trying with Zion by firing SVG because of how his family was upset by the coach and not by the team. Zo, BI, NAW and Hayes are his boys and he repeatedly talks about how they are building something together.

Plus we have picks to add to the team and no bad contract that is long term effective. Adams is easily trade able at 17 million and Bledsoe after this year is only guaranteed 4 million. It’s not like we are going to pick up a high end FA this year because there aren’t any that is worth it.

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we’re close to the playoffs if we didn’t had so many choke leads. 

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hate to break it to you but finishing games is in fact the way you tell the men from the boys.

I followed Philadelphia Warriors because I lived in the metro and got the games. warriors v boston.
celtics with cousy and Russell.
warriors lost one to them with a lead and 10 seconds left. press. stole inbounds. score. stole inbounds. score.
this happened to gsw in playoffs vs san antonio with timmie and the Argentine Ginobili on their way to championship.
two years in a row. crushed their baby balls with the win in sight.
ot. ot again . you get an attaboy.

dont think those late flops are some accident of fate.

gosh man.
you cannot have one weak link to finish games. many pelicans are just learning a key function.

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If you think Dame is only a slight improvement over BI, then there is no point in arguing this with you

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it isn't enough to go from "out of the playoffs" to "top 3 seed" level, especially if we have to deal depth to make the salaries work

and you get that window for MAYBE 3 years when you get it for almost a decade with BI