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Started By
Message
re: NBA Offseason officially kicks off, Ingram’s days in NOLA coming to an end per Stein
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:01 am to Pels_Yaz
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:01 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
You do this on not just this board but Saints board as well
I point out straw man arguments in life, generally.
quote:
instead of having a normal debate.
Stop changing the arguments others are using to fit your pre-formed arguments, and you can have that normal debate.
0
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Holy shite you did it again.
Do you want me to explain how you're being dishonest here? Straw man is just a shorthand for pointing out your dishonesty and logical fallacies based on that dishonesty.
Here, I'll break it down for the 90-IQ types:
1. Nobody is saying we should stand pat. You argued that the alternative to not getting Trae is only this option).
2. Nothing in this digression has anything to do with "Ringer rankings". You created that strawman inception to create even more intellectual dishonesty in your response.
Methinks you meant False Dilemma more than strawman, but your point stands.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:02 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
I'm just not seeing it. Trae is one of the more notable ball-stoppers in the league, something that people on this board conveniently ignore in their love affair.
He's also one of the best passers in the league.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:02 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
I'm just not seeing it. Trae is one of the more notable ball-stoppers in the league, something that people on this board conveniently ignore in their love affair.
They have hopium he will change.
Based on what? Nobody knows.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:02 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
According to who? You and Bill Simmons?
Everyone?
Trae has mad one 3rd team All-NBA team years ago and hasn't sniffed that since
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nobody is saying we should stand pat. You argued that the alternative to not getting Trae is only this option).
You think we should save our picks for elite players. Ok name one that has interest in coming to Nola?
quote:
Nothing in this digression has anything to do with "Ringer rankings". You created that strawman inception to create even more intellectual dishonesty in your response
You started this whole discussion saying Trae is not elite using The Ringer rankings. That was the evidence you used to show Trae is not elite. But be intellectual dishonest by ignoring that you did that.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:04 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Methinks you meant False Dilemma more than strawman, but your point stands.
It's both, b/c he's changing the arguments of others to create that false dilemma, but I didn't want to confuse him more.
Nobody is arguing that we should stand pat and run it back. Saying we shouldn't overpay for Trae doesn't imply this, either. That's how they like to respond to criticizing the overpay.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:04 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What is the point of paying the price of a super elite guy for a guy like Trae who is not elite, let alone super elite?
Building an unstoppable P&R attack. I still lean towards Murray, but I’m not afraid of Trae like you and Jester. Maybe I should be, but we have 2 years of evidence to suggest that Herb and Willie might be able to cover the defensive issues. Offensively, Trae should be able to weaponize Zion in obscene ways.
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 8:05 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:05 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
He's also one of the best passers in the league.
Assuming this is true (and it's not a guarantee), that only comes from his ball-stopping
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
You’re not #2 in Assists in the league if you’re a ball stopper. Also, who would you trust handing the ball on that team besides Murray?
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 8:09 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:06 am to SlowFlowPro
if you have a multi time all star, all pro, wanting to come to your organization that directly fits with your star, not making it happen is borderline fiduciary irresponsibility.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:08 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
if you have a multi time all star, all pro, wanting to come to your organization that directly fits with your star, not making it happen is borderline fiduciary irresponsibility.
But hes not elite enough according to SFP lol
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:08 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Building an unstoppable P&R attack.
quote:
Offensively, Trae should be able to weaponize Zion in obscene ways.
It's theoretically possible IF Trae changes who he is on offense a great deal, and I just don't see this happening.
Like, I see the theoretical offense you're discussing, but when I look at Trae, I don't see anyway that he changes himself to make that happen. We just saw him outright refuse to operate Snyder's PNR scheme to play hero ball instead, which led to disaster the past 2 years. Snyder is a much better coach than Willie (even if we include Borego) and couldn't get it going, b/c Trae outright refused to buy in.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Assuming this is true (and it's not a guarantee), that only comes from his ball-stopping
Hmm ballstopping leading to being one of the best passers in the league?? Of course that makes sense lol
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They have hopium he will change. Based on what? Nobody knows.
I feel like people just want different things or think about things differently. If you want to maximize our chances of winning a championship I don’t know what to do and maybe Trae is a terrible idea. I just don’t think anything we do will get us a ring. So id be happy with just a fun team to watch. Trae and Zion would be fun and we could luck into a Dallas type run and maybe get to WCF.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:11 am to SlowFlowPro
You said he’s not a PNR player when he was ranked #7 last year,
LINK
LINK
This post was edited on 6/26/24 at 8:13 am
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:11 am to SlowFlowPro
Trae would be playing next to the best co-star he's ever had.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:11 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
You think we should save our picks for elite players.
If we're making a godfather offer, yes.
There are other options, like getting better value than we give out for guys who aren't over-priced like Murray or Garland (if this occurs).
Again, you are only focused on one extreme (elite players) when it's not "get a supposed elite player or stand pat". We can use the same resources to get similar players (without the false designation of elite status that makes them appear more expensive) and more of them.
quote:
You started this whole discussion saying Trae is not elite using The Ringer rankings.
I started by saying he's not elite based on all-NBA appearances.
I used the Ringer rankings as a secondary source to show comparable values of BI, Trae, and Bridges. It's not the end-all, be-all.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:12 am to duyp
quote:
You’re not #2 in Assists in the league if you’re a ball stopper.
Why not?
Ball stopper doesn't mean you always shoot. It means you always want to control the ball on offense.
quote:
Also, who would you trust handing the ball on that team besides Murray?
They literally acquired Murray to be the primary ballhandler to move Trae more off ball, and it's been a disaster b/c Trae refuses and wants to dominate the ball.
Hence why he's available.
Posted on 6/26/24 at 8:14 am to duyp
quote:
You said he’s not a PNR player
I never said this
I said Snyder runs a PNR offense and Trae refused to run it, to play hero ball instead.
That doesn't mean he wasn't running PNRs, he just wasn't going what he was supposed to do within the offense
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