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Message
re: I've changed my mind on Walker Kessler
Posted on 7/14/25 at 3:17 pm to Dantheman504
Posted on 7/14/25 at 3:17 pm to Dantheman504
Ainge wants two firsts. No one has given it to him.
If Dumars had dangled just our unprotected first next year with the Bucks swap rights, I’m sure Ainge jumps on that.
If Dumars had dangled just our unprotected first next year with the Bucks swap rights, I’m sure Ainge jumps on that.
This post was edited on 7/14/25 at 3:18 pm
2
Posted on 7/14/25 at 3:39 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Because you are advocating giving up assets to bring in another player over Missi. I like Kessler, but am not willing to give up what it would take to get him. I do not think he improves this team enough to warrant the cost.
Not willing to give up assets to get him is a valid argument. Not thinking he improves the team enough to warrant the cost is a fair argument.
Not getting him because he would play > Missi needs to be removed from any argument whatsoever. There is nothing Missi has shown to warrant NOT looking for someone better.
Having hope Missi works out as a starter is different than having blind faith that he won't single handedly be the reason we are forced to blow this up.
We are not relying on Missi to be our starting center, we are relying on the hope that Missi can be our starting center. That's not something that should be left for chance.
This post was edited on 7/14/25 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 7/14/25 at 4:38 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:Still way too much for him IMO.
If Dumars had dangled just our unprotected first next year with the Bucks swap rights, I’m sure Ainge jumps on that.
Posted on 7/14/25 at 4:51 pm to NOSHAU
It's too messy because you're also about to pay him. He's such a good defensive player, but his inability to help you offensively with spacing (3pt or vertically) and piss poor screens and picks, it's not worth it alone.
Missi offensively provides vertical spacing, he's gotta work on the rest
Missi offensively provides vertical spacing, he's gotta work on the rest
Posted on 7/14/25 at 5:02 pm to Dantheman504
I’d be down for it but end of the price but, I’m not making that trade and then paying Kessler. The time to trade for him imo has come and gone.
Posted on 7/14/25 at 5:38 pm to RawDog7984
quote:
I’m not making that trade and then paying Kessler.
Fair enough. The trade cost scares me way more than paying him. We can afford $25mil without losing much and having Missi for cheap makes it even better. The overall value you'd get between Missi/ Kessler for $30mil is well worth it IMO.
Its hard to trade (2) 1sts for a guy on the last year of his deal and I'd prefer not. I would trade a 1st and swaps but (2) 1sts would have to be heavily protected. Then again, it depends on what everyone else is offering. Would you pay (2) 1sts to be set for a while and also outbid LAL?
Right now I believe the teams interested and needing the help are: Lakers, Celtics, Pacers, Magic, Pelicans.
This post was edited on 7/14/25 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 7/14/25 at 7:24 pm to Townedrunkard
quote:
If Dumars had dangled just our unprotected first next year with the Bucks swap rights, I’m sure Ainge jumps on that.
Correct, and we get Kessler instead of Queen with that trade. Dumars screwed the pooch on that trade and we wouldn’t be worried about the inevitable top 5 pick we handed to Atlanta. We would likely be a 40 win team with Kessler.
Posted on 7/14/25 at 8:19 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
Still way too much for him IMO.
Agreed. I also think Ainge may have bit on the Pacers top 4 pick protected pick next year with no Hali or Turner.
That seems like something Ainge would have jumped on. And the best he will likely get if he’s serious about moving him. That’s what I talk about when arguing losing value in a trade. Dumars recklessly jumped the gun for no reason.
Think I would have preferred Kessler and keeping our unprotected pick next year instead of having Queen.
This post was edited on 7/14/25 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 7/14/25 at 11:54 pm to Dantheman504
Theres no bigger advocate for Kessler than I am. I’ve wanted him since his rookie year but now he's due to be paid and Gayle isn’t going into the tax. They will still want a lot in trade for him also and now that they traded John Collins to the Clippers (who also would have been a solid player we should have looked into) I don’t see a deal for Kessler where Utah doesn't want Missi in the deal coming back along with a future 1st. The only good thing about a deal that steep is we would be able to send Hawkins and his $4+ mil off the books. The time to trade for Kessler was before we took our shot on Queen. In the little I have watched of Queen, however, is that he's just not quick enough to play the 4 so he's an undersized 5 with limited athleticism which means he better develop a solid jump shot and lose about 20lbs of the baby weight it looks like he's carrying and it needs to be turned into muscle. We are kind of stuck with what we have unless we move a Zion, Trey or Herb.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 12:23 am to Geauxldilocks
quote:
40 win team with Kessler
Kessler isn't a guy that has necessarily contributed to winning, so I'm not sure we can mark that down as a certainty. He's another flawed, 1 dimensional big. We have quite enough of those already.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 8:23 am to 3PieceSpicy
So all of you want Kessler/Missi at the 5, with Looney backing them up, and Zion/Queen at the 4?
You know how many 3 pointers we are going to get from that brigade at the 4 and 5 in a game? Maybe 1 a game, if that.
It's incredibly hard to win when you've always got 2 guys on the court that aren't even out on the three point line, much less shooting a three.
I like Kessler, but we have to get some 3 point shooting from our 4 and 5 position. It's been 6 years for god sake and we still do'nt have a 4 or a 5 that can shoot a fricking 3 to play alongside non 3 point shooting Zion.
You know how many 3 pointers we are going to get from that brigade at the 4 and 5 in a game? Maybe 1 a game, if that.
It's incredibly hard to win when you've always got 2 guys on the court that aren't even out on the three point line, much less shooting a three.
I like Kessler, but we have to get some 3 point shooting from our 4 and 5 position. It's been 6 years for god sake and we still do'nt have a 4 or a 5 that can shoot a fricking 3 to play alongside non 3 point shooting Zion.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 8:32 am to TeddyPadillac
That's part of why I'm rooting for Karlo, who I believe is going to be ahead of Queen in the rotation. If Karlo can improve his shooting a bit, then he can help us.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 8:47 am to Dantheman504
quote:
You can't seriously think Kessler doesn't move the needle for us while simultaneously thinking Missi is our savior
I definitely did not say this.
Missi is already on our team and is younger and, therefore, cheaper for the next 3 years.
Neither one is our savior, realistically speaking.
Posted on 7/15/25 at 9:05 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
So all of you want Kessler/Missi at the 5, with Looney backing them up, and Zion/Queen at the 4?
You can't be upset about an addition of Kessler. You'd rather JUST have Missi/ Zion/ Queen/ Looney? That's limited shooting and limited defense. I'd rather at least fix one of those things. Between Karlo/ Queen we have some shooting at 4-5 now compared to recent years. Missi can still develop a shot. I'd say a defensive anchor is more important.
quote:
That's part of why I'm rooting for Karlo, who I believe is going to be ahead of Queen in the rotation.
I was one of few people who was hyped about Karlo 3 years ago and also quickly wrote him off. He looked really good at the end of last year and his defense compared to 3 years ago is great. He can have a big impact this year.
quote:
Missi is already on our team and is younger and, therefore, cheaper for the next 3 years
Yeah I got you but younger, cheaper, and on the roster doesn't matter at all. Is he better? Can he play defense better than Kessler? We aren't losing Missi in this scenario and we should add another center because Missi is cheap, not rely on a (1) rookie center.
This post was edited on 7/15/25 at 9:06 am
Posted on 7/15/25 at 9:39 am to Townedrunkard
quote:Agree with this 100%. That makes a whole lot more sense for this team. The Pacers pick for Kessler would have been a fair deal for both teams. Drafting Fears and retaining our 2026 pick would have been a solid draft. Having Fears, Kessler and our 2026 1st is such a better outcome than Fears and DQ.
Agreed. I also think Ainge may have bit on the Pacers top 4 pick protected pick next year with no Hali or Turner.
That seems like something Ainge would have jumped on. And the best he will likely get if he’s serious about moving him. That’s what I talk about when arguing losing value in a trade. Dumars recklessly jumped the gun for no reason.
Think I would have preferred Kessler and keeping our unprotected pick next year instead of having Queen.
Posted on 7/16/25 at 4:57 am to Dantheman504
quote:
We can just run it but we aren't getting far with just Missi. It almost makes it worse to do our trades and not still fill that spot at center
Maybe some of us realized this before the Queen trade and that's why we were so unhappy to trade an unprotected pick next year, because Missi truly isn't ready to be a quality starting 5 in the league, but he's what we have.
You supported the trade ad nauseum, contending the team was a playoff roster when healthy. Do you still feel that way? Because now it seems after watching Missi in SL, you no longer seem confident. Maybe we were foolish to make the trade? So now you want to compound the problem, by trading more future firsts, for a guy that may or may not be worth the asking price.
Posted on 7/17/25 at 12:21 pm to TooFyeToFly
quote:
Kessler is not going to elevate this team. He is what he is at this point, and it's not enough to move the needle for us.
Missi had your best rebounding and block rates on the team last year at 16.6% Reb and 4.8% block
Kessler carries a career rebounding rate of 20% and block rate of 8.4%
We were the 8th worst rebounding team in the league last year. Any injecting of rebounding would benefit this team.
Posted on 7/17/25 at 12:38 pm to RUFshreve
quote:
You supported the trade ad nauseum, contending the team was a playoff roster when healthy. Do you still feel that way? Because now it seems after watching Missi in SL, you no longer seem confident. Maybe we were foolish to make the trade? So now you want to compound the problem, by trading more future firsts, for a guy that may or may not be worth the asking price.
Swing and a miss. I have been posting trade ideas for center upgrades for an entire year..... Missi could have not played SL and I probably still would have eventually made this thread. He just made it easier to speed up that process playing like shite against nobody's.
quote:
contending the team was a playoff roster when healthy.
I actually said we are a playoff roster when healthy and a contender IF WE UPGRADED CENTER ad nauseum.
I like Queen and like the pick. I also still want to add a center because maybe having Queen and a center is better than having 1 or the other.
quote:
you no longer seem confident
I was never confident. The hint would be all the trade threads I've started about adding a real starting center. We haven't added one so I really don't have a choice but to try and be optimistic.
Posted on 7/17/25 at 1:02 pm to Dantheman504
I'm not suprised tho. This is the same group that expects us to get better but doesn't want to trade picks because we will be the worst and the picks will be good.
I actually love that people are mad we traded picks because "those are players we could have drafted" but those same people are upset with the players we drafted and would rather trade picks. Quite silly really.
Unfortunately those same people could never accept there own contradictions or mental gymnastics.
I actually love that people are mad we traded picks because "those are players we could have drafted" but those same people are upset with the players we drafted and would rather trade picks. Quite silly really.
Unfortunately those same people could never accept there own contradictions or mental gymnastics.
This post was edited on 7/17/25 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 7/18/25 at 10:34 pm to Dantheman504
I've been crafting up Kessler ideas, too. Shamit's article made good points, Kessler would be such an upgrade, a young defensive anchor foundation like Rudy G.
A few things:
1) seems like we would have to include Missi in a trade for Kessler. Gives them a rookie contract rim running C option to help replace Kessler's role.
2) Jazz have no real incentive to move him, so it would have to be an overpay. They just saw Dumars Weaver give up an unprotected golden ticket 1st, so they likely would hold firm at getting a 1st with no protections, and possibly also a swap or another 1st.
3) A trade for Kessler before the season would likely be an immediate extension agreement for him, which would kick in for the next 26-27 season, jumping his salary to 20-28m/yr range. So before next offseason, they would have to shed one of their big salaries, most likely Murray or Zion. So a Kessler trade should also have Murray going out to a 3rd team for an expiring, or they could risk it and wait until the deadline when teams know Pels have to make a salary dump trade, but Murray would be ready to play by then.
Missi + 2028 unprotected 1st
for
Kessler
Then:
Murray + 2nd to Heat
Rozier + 2nd to Wizards
Smart to Pelicans
Then try to sign Boucher, Lyles or Brogdon. Reeves maybe. Hawkins, Jose available for trade.
Kessler/ Looney
Zion/ Bey/ Queen
Trey/ Smart/ Peavy
Herb/ Hawkins
Poole/ Jose/ Fears
A few things:
1) seems like we would have to include Missi in a trade for Kessler. Gives them a rookie contract rim running C option to help replace Kessler's role.
2) Jazz have no real incentive to move him, so it would have to be an overpay. They just saw Dumars Weaver give up an unprotected golden ticket 1st, so they likely would hold firm at getting a 1st with no protections, and possibly also a swap or another 1st.
3) A trade for Kessler before the season would likely be an immediate extension agreement for him, which would kick in for the next 26-27 season, jumping his salary to 20-28m/yr range. So before next offseason, they would have to shed one of their big salaries, most likely Murray or Zion. So a Kessler trade should also have Murray going out to a 3rd team for an expiring, or they could risk it and wait until the deadline when teams know Pels have to make a salary dump trade, but Murray would be ready to play by then.
Missi + 2028 unprotected 1st
for
Kessler
Then:
Murray + 2nd to Heat
Rozier + 2nd to Wizards
Smart to Pelicans
Then try to sign Boucher, Lyles or Brogdon. Reeves maybe. Hawkins, Jose available for trade.
Kessler/ Looney
Zion/ Bey/ Queen
Trey/ Smart/ Peavy
Herb/ Hawkins
Poole/ Jose/ Fears
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