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re: I have a hard time believing Griffin will do what needs to be done.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:30 pm to Soggymoss
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:30 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Harden trade to Clippers was literally all expiring salary CJ trade to us only reason we were able to make it was because we had the expiring salary
CJ trade was over 2.5 years ago. Harden trade was more about getting rid of Harden and clippers being the only team wanting him. Those aren’t great examples.
1
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:30 pm to Pels_Yaz
And there are a variety of reasons for that. Cap Space is considered less valuable, which is what a lot of "expiring deals" were about.
The Play In tournament now has more than half the league with a chance at the playoffs, so less teams are willing to take on bad contracts, or need to
The Play In tournament now has more than half the league with a chance at the playoffs, so less teams are willing to take on bad contracts, or need to
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:30 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
A perfect example is how we couldn’t trade JV this deadline.
We couldn’t?
Or is more likely that we couldn’t find someone to take him in a deal for a better player that we were after, namely Jarret Allen.
We weren’t looking to just dump Jonas, we were looking to upgrade him, and there’s nobody that was moved that would have been an upgrade.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:35 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Or is more likely that we couldn’t find someone to take him in a deal for a better player that we were after, namely Jarret Allen. We weren’t looking to just dump Jonas, we were looking to upgrade him, and there’s nobody that was moved that would have been an upgrade.
Sure but its also combination of the fact that no one cares as much that he was expiring. I don’t think pels could easily “dump” him as you say either. There was a time that a team would send a vet and draft pick for an expiring- those days are over.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:37 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
CJ trade was over 2.5 years ago. Harden trade was more about getting rid of Harden and clippers being the only team wanting him. Those aren’t great examples.
That’s the two most recent big trades where guys weren’t traded for players that have value.
KD trade can’t count as Bridges is an all star level player
Dame trade doesn’t count as good players were shuffled around in that deal also.
I guess we could go back to last years deadline and the reason Lakers got the guys they did was because they had expiring salary to trade, and there’s other smaller deals like that that happens all the time.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:41 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
That’s the two most recent big trades where guys weren’t traded for players that have value.
And kind of proves the point that expirings arent as valuable.
quote:
I guess we could go back to last years deadline and the reason Lakers got the guys they did was because they had expiring salary to trade, and there’s other smaller deals like that that happens all the time.
Lakers made those deals because they shipped out a first- which was the real value in the trade.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:45 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Lakers made those deals because they shipped out a first- which was the real value in the trade.
Every contender in the league would have sent a 1st out for those guys, Utah explicitly said they wanted expiring salary though which is what set Lakers apart.
quote:
Lakers made those deals because they shipped out a first- which was the real value in the trade.
It literally doesn’t
“Ohhhh only two top 50 players that were shipped out in big deals went for expiring salary!!! See its not valuable”
Just because you don’t want to think it’s nit valuable doesn’t mean an expiring deal doesn’t have value. Will a team trade you picks to take that expiring? Not at all, but you won’t have to add extra picks to send out that expiring salary in a huge deal
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:49 pm to Soggymoss
Every contender in the league would have sent a 1st out for those guys, Utah explicitly said they wanted expiring salary though which is what set Lakers apart.
But heres the issue you’re trading for ben simmons expiring contract like its a valuable asset. Its really not. You still haven’t shown it is. Sure it may facilitate a trade but only if you’re attaching high draft compensation. If thats the case why would you just trade for Simmons salary only??
But heres the issue you’re trading for ben simmons expiring contract like its a valuable asset. Its really not. You still haven’t shown it is. Sure it may facilitate a trade but only if you’re attaching high draft compensation. If thats the case why would you just trade for Simmons salary only??
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:52 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Ohhhh only two top 50 players that were shipped out in big deals went for expiring salary!!! See its not valuable”
It wasnt just expirings in the CJ snd Harden deals. If we didn’t make playoffs- blazers would get a first. Im pretty sure Sixers also got a first. You’re acting like the expirings are the real value- they’re not. Its the draft picks. Without the picks the expirings are useless.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:57 pm to Fun Bunch
Move Zion ASAP.
Fit is horrible and he clogs up the offense.
Get a 6'10 Big who can stretch the floor and protect the rim. Be a real threat to score and balance the team.
Too much relying on Zion to just drive to the goal with his left hand only and teams just sag on him because he's no threat to shoot the ball.
Hopefully there's some value there now other than the side show circus he is and he's shown he can get through a season.
Fit is horrible and he clogs up the offense.
Get a 6'10 Big who can stretch the floor and protect the rim. Be a real threat to score and balance the team.
Too much relying on Zion to just drive to the goal with his left hand only and teams just sag on him because he's no threat to shoot the ball.
Hopefully there's some value there now other than the side show circus he is and he's shown he can get through a season.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:00 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
If thats the case why would you just trade for Simmons salary only
You literally answered your own question
quote:
Sure it may facilitate a trade
And yes, you would have to attach draft compensation, that’s the only way you would get a Trae Young level player my guy. The draft picks are not to dump Simmons, its to acquire Trae.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:02 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
If we didn’t make playoffs- blazers would get a firs
Every other team that was in on CJ was offering 1st round picks also.
You know what separated us from them? The expiring salary, they couldn’t offer that.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:03 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
The Play In tournament now has more than half the league with a chance at the playoffs, so less teams are willing to take on bad contracts, or need to
Not to mention, there are only a handful of teams where cap space matters, because those are the teams that these entitled fricks want to play for. If you are the Utah Jazz, cap space is irrelevant, because if you do end up using it, you'll probably use it by overpaying for someone. It's much better to trade for good players, rather than attempt to use cap space.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:05 pm to longhorn22
quote:
Move Zion ASAP.
Sure sure
Let me guess, we should move him to the Lakers for Jarred Vanderbilt and Reaves. We should probably give them some picks too
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:10 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
It's much better to trade for good players, rather than attempt to use cap space.
Not with this new CBA because draft picks are king for teams that cannot/will not pay 100 million in luxury tax.
It also depends on how much salary cap space you can open up, if you’re a team like Atlanta that could open up a max contract slot WHILE getting 5-6 1st round picks you do that every single day, because you will be able to find players that want to play in Atlanta
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:17 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Griff was handed a rebuild on a silver platter. A #1 pick, a haul from the AD trade and another big asset to flip in Jrue. What does he have to show for it after 5 years? 1 hard fought first round exit, a disappointing play in loss last year, and probably another disappointing play in loss this year.
And just about every team in the league has had a better “best season” since we drafted Zion and started this rebuild.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:19 pm to Fun Bunch
Neither are 6'10 and can be what the Pels need inside.
He sold tickets during a "building" time after you lost your franchise player, GREAT.... now that you were able to pull in great pieces like CJ/BI and the youth around the perimeter. Need something real inside to balance that.
Get the value you can for him to succeed and get over that hump. Zion has not worked on any part of his game. He is still only relying on his bluntness at getting to the goal. When its winning time and teams scheme correctly and its not middle of January, he struggles or gets punked the exact way he did yesterday.
It clogs the offense and gives the Pels no balance.
Love the window the Pels have, just have to move on from the side show circus.
He sold tickets during a "building" time after you lost your franchise player, GREAT.... now that you were able to pull in great pieces like CJ/BI and the youth around the perimeter. Need something real inside to balance that.
Get the value you can for him to succeed and get over that hump. Zion has not worked on any part of his game. He is still only relying on his bluntness at getting to the goal. When its winning time and teams scheme correctly and its not middle of January, he struggles or gets punked the exact way he did yesterday.
It clogs the offense and gives the Pels no balance.
Love the window the Pels have, just have to move on from the side show circus.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:23 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
You know what separated us from them? The expiring salary, they couldn’t offer that.
Again with added draft pick compensation. The gamble was they could have got a lottery pick from us. You’re again assuming the expiring salary is more important than the draft pick.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:29 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
Not with this new CBA because draft picks are king for teams that cannot/will not pay 100 million in luxury tax.
So, with the new CBA you think it's better for a team like Utah to attempt to open up cap space and attempt to sign free agents, rather than trade for good players on long term contracts?
Posted on 4/15/24 at 3:39 pm to shel311
quote:
The issue is that BI is the obvious move, and BI is also the guy Griff has front and center as the face of the franchise, even above the best player and actual face of the franchise. There's a difference.
But we can't just run it back with BI. We can't punt, because the time for waiting is over.
We have to either trade him this summer, or extend him. And for everyone talking about how cheap Gayle is, the truth is that they have to have a lot of confidence in him to become a superstar to pay him what they're going to have to pay him to keep him.
That's the other big reason that I don't see us keeping Ingram.
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