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re: Have we ever seen a head coach with a .288 winning percentage do a complete 180?
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:20 pm to duyp
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:20 pm to duyp
quote:
You can’t tell me a team of
Evan Fournier
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon
Tobias Harris
Nikola Vucevic
With a bench of Elfrid Payton, Ben Gordon, Willie Green, Channing Frye, Maurice Harkless and Dewayne Desmond is a 25-57 team in the East.
What!? You could maybe take all of those players best season and do a simulation, they might make the playoffs. Otherwise it’s like rolling out a lineup Jaxson Hayes, Kira, Naji Marshall, NAW and Didi Louzada next to a Brandon Ingram
Harris and Vucevic were 1 season into their career and on their second team already.
Harkless, Dipo, Elfrid and Aaron Gordon came in as rookies under Vaughn
Fournier was in his 3rd year on his second team, first opportunity to start, learning curve of coming over from France
Guys like Ben gordon and Frye are fine aa bench guys on a good team. They only compound the problem on a young, bad team like that
1
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:28 pm to duyp
Yes, the mighty Aaron Gordon, that, *checks notes* was 19 and averaged 5ppg. Fournier that was averaging 12ppg and isn’t even a starter in this league. Vucevic who was their best player but had yet to develop a reliable stroke at the time and still never plays D. Maurice Harkless was years from developing into anything.
Do you literally look at names and just assume they are the prime version of that player? This is such an ignorant post it’s unbelievable lol.
That team was full of the 20-22 year old versions of overrated and near rookie players, with over the hill vets, all of which missed 10 or more games Vaughn’s final season.
Do you literally look at names and just assume they are the prime version of that player? This is such an ignorant post it’s unbelievable lol.
That team was full of the 20-22 year old versions of overrated and near rookie players, with over the hill vets, all of which missed 10 or more games Vaughn’s final season.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:29 pm to duyp
quote:Are you thinking of that from the perspective of all of those guys and what they were at their peak?
You can’t tell me a team of
Evan Fournier
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon
Tobias Harris
Nikola Vucevic
With a bench of Elfrid Payton, Ben Gordon, Willie Green, Channing Frye, Maurice Harkless and Dewayne Desmond is a 25-57 team in the East.
The 1st 5 were super young, nowhere near what they are now or were at their peak.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 3:01 pm to Bronc
quote:
Do you literally look at names and just assume they are the prime version of that player? This is such an ignorant post it’s unbelievable lol
How is it ignorant when he got fired during the season? Also most of you guys who bitch about our young guys not succeeding but giving time for Vaughn? Holy hell. Also how is it ignorant when you see teams who are around 20-22 like Memphis and Atlanta succeeding right now. I thought you are better than this than to call people ignorant.
Also, if this was the pelicans and these were the results for 3 straight seasons. Everyone would be yelling to fire Vaughn. Scott Skiles took over the year after and they went 35-47. I’m not saying this team is playoff bound or anything. But no way they should be <.288with a roster like that.
Tobias Harris was in his 5th year
Aaron Gordon was his rookie year
Evan Fournier was in his 3rd year
Nikola Vucevic was in his 4th year
Elfrid Payton was in his rookie year at 20 years old
Dewayne Desmond was in his 5th year
Old Vet Channing Frye was 31 but played 6 more years after that.
Ben Gordon was 31 years old
Maurice Harkless was in his 3rd year. Yeah it took him years to develop because of shitty coaching.
Oladipo was in his second year
Luke Ridnour the oldest run over the mill vet was only 33.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 3:04 pm to shel311
quote:
Are you thinking of that from the perspective of all of those guys and what they were at their peak? The 1st 5 were super young, nowhere near what they are now or were at their peak
I’m thinking from what I read from Orlando Magic fans who watch him more than me during that tenure.
Here is a Reddit thread on why he sucked
LINK
Posted on 6/27/21 at 3:05 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
What!? You could maybe take all of those players best season and do a simulation, they might make the playoffs. Otherwise it’s like rolling out a lineup Jaxson Hayes, Kira, Naji Marshall, NAW and Didi Louzada next to a Brandon Ingram
I’m not saying make the playoffs. I’m saying they are not a .333 team. They should be around close to playoffs or around .400-.500. You can ask any magic fan on what they thought about Vaughn and they could tell you that his rotation was horrible.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 3:08 pm to duyp
To be clear I’m not calling you ignorant, I’m saying the post is rather ignorant.
You got to put into context those players and the situation, and as I said, I’m not even sold on Vaughn, but Phil Jackson in his prime wasn’t turning that bunch into a playoff team.
Even in context it wasn’t a great outing for Vaughn, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that, but to frame it like he was gifted a playoff caliber team, he was not.
And it’s telling you are just listing off their years and not what type of player they were in that period. None of those players were good enough for the roles they were put into and most of them were not skilled and mature enough to know how to win games.
Reminds me honestly of people that want to pretend our roster was playoff caliber when it simply wasn’t. Coaching can’t erase core roster deficiencies.
You got to put into context those players and the situation, and as I said, I’m not even sold on Vaughn, but Phil Jackson in his prime wasn’t turning that bunch into a playoff team.
Even in context it wasn’t a great outing for Vaughn, I don’t think anyone disagrees with that, but to frame it like he was gifted a playoff caliber team, he was not.
And it’s telling you are just listing off their years and not what type of player they were in that period. None of those players were good enough for the roles they were put into and most of them were not skilled and mature enough to know how to win games.
Reminds me honestly of people that want to pretend our roster was playoff caliber when it simply wasn’t. Coaching can’t erase core roster deficiencies.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 4:00 pm to Bronc
quote:
None of those players were good enough for the roles they were put into and most of them were not skilled and mature enough to know how to win games.
That has to do with coaching also. Oladipo didn’t even know his role. He said that every guy on the team was trying to be “the guy.” That’s where the veterans come in and try to help them mature. I’m not saying this team is playoffs bound but they are not a .288 team with that roster. They should be hovering around .400-.500 if anything. A lot of Magic fans can tell you how horrible Vaughn rotations are and how he doesn’t play the right guys. One guy can go off one game and then go missing the next. Maybe he changed, but I do not want to risk it with this team.
quote:
Reminds me honestly of people that want to pretend our roster was playoff caliber when it simply wasn’t. Coaching can’t erase core roster deficiencies.
They can’t erase core deficiencies but you can blame SVG on some of these losses with his rotations. That was one of the reasons why he was fired. Even Ingram came out and talked about how him and Zion should had more plays together than the bogus isos or dish out passes.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 6:17 pm to Macintosh
Coaching just doesn't mean that much in the NBA. It does matter if he can't get along with the players and they tune him out. Otherwise talent tells the tale. Always has.
Look at a guy like Dwayne Casey. Stellar record with the Raptors. He was over 60% his last 3 years. He goes to Detroit and has been progressively worse each year, under 30% this year.
Did he forget how to coach?
Look at a guy like Dwayne Casey. Stellar record with the Raptors. He was over 60% his last 3 years. He goes to Detroit and has been progressively worse each year, under 30% this year.
Did he forget how to coach?
Posted on 6/27/21 at 6:26 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Coaching just doesn't mean that much in the NBA.
I think watching the progress of the suns and hawks says otherwise. It’s not the most important thing but a coach’s ability definitely has value
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:01 pm to Macintosh
To add to that. Clippers weren’t going to go to the Conference finals with Rivers.Mann’s mom even tells you how different coaching is and how much confidence it helps bring in her son.
Also Marc Jackson and Dwayne Casey are guys who had great teams but can never win a championship until the next coach came in.
The biggest key to a coach is X’s and O’s and rotations like what Lue has done being down 0-2 each series. Exposing Gobert was all done by coaching.
Also Marc Jackson and Dwayne Casey are guys who had great teams but can never win a championship until the next coach came in.
The biggest key to a coach is X’s and O’s and rotations like what Lue has done being down 0-2 each series. Exposing Gobert was all done by coaching.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:03 pm to Macintosh
Coaching matters a lot on a young team, like the Hawks. On a team with accomplished vets, it matters much less.
We're a young team without established vets, so for us, coaching matters a lot.
We're a young team without established vets, so for us, coaching matters a lot.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:11 pm to Macintosh
Do you think the Suns success has anything to do with adding CP3? Comes in and leads the team in PER, win shares and just any other metric that measures a player’s value
RE: Nate McMillan
Great case study. Guy was notorious for shitting the bed in the playoffs, having won 32% of his 53 career playoff games as a coach. A coach this board surely would’ve shite on if he were to interview here. Hawks go on a heater and now he’s something
RE: Nate McMillan
Great case study. Guy was notorious for shitting the bed in the playoffs, having won 32% of his 53 career playoff games as a coach. A coach this board surely would’ve shite on if he were to interview here. Hawks go on a heater and now he’s something
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:14 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:part of it yes but you’ve seen massive growth from Booker and Ayton as complete players throughout montys tenure. As well as the other young guys on that team. When Paul was out with Covid, the sun kids still balled out.
Do you think the Suns success has anything to do with adding CP3?
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:15 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Do you think the Suns success has anything to do with adding CP3?
It's shocking to me how little credit people on this board seem to give CP3 for the Suns winning.
quote:
Deandre Ayton on Chris Paul: “I love CP, man. That’s really the only teammate that really pushed me… like big bro type push knowing what I got and that I never thought that I had. I think he was the best thing that ever happened to my career...”
LINK
Posted on 6/27/21 at 7:43 pm to TigerinATL
And big man coach Mark Bryant is credited with honing Ayton’s game. Im not dismissing the importance of the HC but we aren’t crediting SVG with lonzo’s improvement. Monty is a great leader and players coach, and that’s what we need. But the assistants may be more important. Having good players who fit and know their role helps too
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