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Have we ever seen a head coach with a .288 winning percentage do a complete 180?
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:50 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:50 pm
I’m just curious if there’s ever been a head coach who was abysmal in his first coaching stint and completely changed his ways and became a respected coach in his second tenure..
Please do not put Monty as an example for he had nearly a .440 winning percentage here.
Please do not put Monty as an example for he had nearly a .440 winning percentage here.
3
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:52 pm to Macintosh
quote:
I’m just curious if there’s ever been a head coach who was abysmal in his first coaching stint and completely changed his ways and became a respected coach in his second tenure..
Not second tenure but: Gregg Popovich: 0.266 his first year; 0.681 since.
Honestly, I got nothing.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 10:55 pm to htran90
quote:
Gregg Popovich: 0.266 his first year; 0.681 since
Does one year with your star player David Robinson out all year with an injury really compare though? I respect your effort but I don’t think that’s comparable
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:03 pm to Macintosh
The amount of pre-melting that's being done over Vaughn is going to make us overrate whoever gets it that isn't Vaughn.
Charles Lee Our Lord & Savior.
Charles Lee Our Lord & Savior.
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:05 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
The amount of pre-melting that's being done over Vaughn is going to make us overrate whoever gets it that isn't Vaughn.
Charles Lee Our Lord & Savior.
Tbh all of these assistant coaches are huge question marks for us fans who have little info to work with This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:19 pm to htran90
Mike Malone was 36% in his firs stint in Sac.
Terry Stotts was 37% in his first stint
George Karl had a 34% percentage his first stint
Jerry Sloan 38% his first stint
Chuck Daly 22% his first stint
KC Jones 35% his first stint
Jake Ramsay 29%
Brad Stevens 30% his first year
The fact is most coaches that struggle early never get a second chance. When it does happen its not unheard of for some of those coaches to show improvement(and again, Vaughn HAS). Seriously, how many people are the same manager/employee they are today that they were 5-10 years ago? People grow and learn, its not that crazy an idea. And like I have told you OP, I don't even really give much of a shite about Vaughn and he's not my first, second, or third choice.
Terry Stotts was 37% in his first stint
George Karl had a 34% percentage his first stint
Jerry Sloan 38% his first stint
Chuck Daly 22% his first stint
KC Jones 35% his first stint
Jake Ramsay 29%
Brad Stevens 30% his first year
The fact is most coaches that struggle early never get a second chance. When it does happen its not unheard of for some of those coaches to show improvement(and again, Vaughn HAS). Seriously, how many people are the same manager/employee they are today that they were 5-10 years ago? People grow and learn, its not that crazy an idea. And like I have told you OP, I don't even really give much of a shite about Vaughn and he's not my first, second, or third choice.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 11:29 pm
Posted on 6/26/21 at 11:52 pm to Bronc
Most of those coaches you mentioned only had one year with a bad winning percentage, two max. Jack Ramsay was never less than 29% total in any of his teams.
Jack Vaughn had 3 seasons to figured out his team. You can’t tell me his team was garbage with his roster when most of them left and somehow improved. Especially a team like that in the East.
Jack Vaughn had 3 seasons to figured out his team. You can’t tell me his team was garbage with his roster when most of them left and somehow improved. Especially a team like that in the East.
This post was edited on 6/26/21 at 11:54 pm
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:35 am to Bronc
I will say Mike Malone got boned by the Kings FO firing him after he was doing solid his second year. What a dumb move by then
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 12:36 am
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:56 am to Macintosh
quote:
Does one year with your star player David Robinson out all year with an injury really compare though?
Kinda like coaching a team where a young nik vucevic and Tobias Harris are your best players. The rest of the roster on those Magic teams is full of NBA journeyman bench players and guys who couldn’t stay in the league
Posted on 6/27/21 at 1:22 am to duyp
quote:
You can’t tell me his team was garbage with his roster when most of them left and somehow improved
21-23 year old players continued to improve?
No fricking way! You serious? Someone call the press, this is literally unheard of!!!
Posted on 6/27/21 at 1:26 am to GynoSandberg
quote:do these younger players on those rosters years back ever give Jacque credit for their development? Like Giannis gave credit to Kidd
Kinda like coaching a team where a young nik vucevic and Tobias Harris are your best players. The rest of the roster on those Magic teams is full of NBA journeyman bench players and guys who couldn’t stay in the league
Posted on 6/27/21 at 2:54 am to Bronc
quote:
21-23 year old players continued to improve?
No fricking way! You serious? Someone call the press, this is literally unheard of!!!
Yeah and somehow they traded Tobias Harris and Oladipo after a few years. You don’t give up or trade those players if they “continued to improve”on your team.
Any Magic fan will tell you that was the reason why they fired the coaching staff.
LINK
Posted on 6/27/21 at 2:58 am to duyp
LINK
quote:
For a young player it is daunting enough to adjust to the NBA. Having to learn how to play two different positions makes it even harder. The very least a talented—but still inexperienced—player like Harris needs is some consistency from the coaching staff.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 8:48 am to duyp
There are many positives in that article, thanks for sharing.
Posted on 6/27/21 at 9:10 am to Bronc
quote:Most of those are either incorrect or you are again choosing one year or even a partial year for your reference. Not sure where you got Ramsay. His first year he won 67% of his games. KC Jones 1st year in the NBA won 57% (maybe you are going back to the ABA?).
Mike Malone was 36% in his firs stint in Sac.
Terry Stotts was 37% in his first stint
George Karl had a 34% percentage his first stint
Jerry Sloan 38% his first stint
Chuck Daly 22% his first stint
KC Jones 35% his first stint
Jake Ramsay 29%
Brad Stevens 30% his first year
The fact is most coaches that struggle early never get a second chance. When it does happen its not unheard of for some of those coaches to show improvement(and again, Vaughn HAS). Seriously, how many people are the same manager/employee they are today that they were 5-10 years ago? People grow and learn, its not that crazy an idea. And like I have told you OP, I don't even really give much of a shite about Vaughn and he's not my first, second, or third choice.
Seems like many are preparing for Vaughn and trying to convince ourselves he is the right many for the job. A lot of the same posts were made after SVG was hired. It appears they are not widening their search to include others outside of Lee and Vaughn. Not sure why someone like Vanterpool is not being interviewed. He seems to be well respected amongst players.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 9:13 am
Posted on 6/27/21 at 9:18 am to NOSHAU
As I said, first stint or first outings.
So wherever they coached first. That was the question asked.
Math and selection was done ad hoc and at random at midnight. Doubt everything is perfect
Point is the idea that coaches can’t improve is silly. We’ve seen examples time and time again.
Does it mean I am clamoring for Vaughn? No, in fact like Lee I still am waiting on more convincing arguments for why they would be good coaches, but simply pointing to a shitty Orlando team(arguably the worst run franchise in the last decade), with a terrible GM that he struggled with(and keep in mind Frank Vogel went there a few seasons later and got worse every season and then went on to win a championship last season), ignoring the improvements and praise he has gotten, reeks of confirmation bias seeking.
So wherever they coached first. That was the question asked.
Math and selection was done ad hoc and at random at midnight. Doubt everything is perfect
Point is the idea that coaches can’t improve is silly. We’ve seen examples time and time again.
Does it mean I am clamoring for Vaughn? No, in fact like Lee I still am waiting on more convincing arguments for why they would be good coaches, but simply pointing to a shitty Orlando team(arguably the worst run franchise in the last decade), with a terrible GM that he struggled with(and keep in mind Frank Vogel went there a few seasons later and got worse every season and then went on to win a championship last season), ignoring the improvements and praise he has gotten, reeks of confirmation bias seeking.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 9:21 am
Posted on 6/27/21 at 10:03 am to duyp
quote:
Yeah and somehow they traded Tobias Harris and Oladipo after a few years. You don’t give up or trade those players if they “continued to improve”on your team.
Tobias Harris has played on 5 teams in 9 seasons
Oladipo has played on 5 teams in 7 seasons
They will play next season at age 29.
quote:
Any Magic fan will tell you that was the reason why they fired the coaching staff.
Did you even read the article you posted
Oladipo
“It was a lot of young guys trying to prove themselves. A lot of young guys trying to prove I am that guy. It was almost like we were in battle against each other when we played instead of trying to work together to try to get a win. It was tough.”
Posted on 6/27/21 at 10:40 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Tobias Harris has played on 5 teams in 9 seasons
Oladipo has played on 5 teams in 7 seasons
They will play next season at age 29.
They’re still in the league and look how much they are getting paid. Not MLE that’s for sure. Also read what you said. “THEY WILL PLAY” like being in the NBA is easy. As if those guys wouldn’t help the Magic right now.
quote:
Undoubtedly though, the failures in Orlando fueled Oladipo’s development. And possibly his experience since leaving Orlando too. As Magic fans try to figure out what exactly went wrong with the rebuild the last five years, they will likely point to Oladipo’s development as a sure sign something was wrong internally.
I did read the article. Did you read what you quoted?Youre quoting as if that’s a good thing. How these guys are trying to be the guy instead of trying to know their role on the team.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 10:49 am
Posted on 6/27/21 at 11:06 am to duyp
quote:
They’re still in the league and look how much they are getting paid. Not MLE that’s for sure. Also read what you said. “THEY WILL PLAY” like being in the NBA is easy.
Buddy you said “ You don’t give up or trade those players if they “continued to improve”on your team.” That’s exactly was has been done to both of those guys. Do you really think that is the best example of Vaughn being a poor coach? Surely there is something else
quote:
I did read the article. Did you read what you quoted?Youre quoting as if that’s a good thing. How these guys are trying to be the guy instead of trying to know their role on the team.
There’s a correlation between the avg age of a roster and in season performance - it’s not good. Young teams perform poorly. We are talking about a young magic team whose young players weren’t even that good, who later we will learn they are meant to be ancillary pieces on a team. Next to these young players were guys like Glen Davis, Kyle o Quinn, jameer nelson, mo harkless, Aaron affalo. Those were some of worst teams in the last decade
Posted on 6/27/21 at 12:03 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Buddy you said “ You don’t give up or trade those players if they “continued to improve”on your team.” That’s exactly was has been done to both of those guys. Do you really think that is the best example of Vaughn being a poor coach? Surely there is something else
Yes I do think it’s because Vaughn is a bad coach. You don’t trade them unless they are for a superstar or for picks. Harris wanted out of Orlando and got traded to Detroit. He then was the centerpiece to get a superstar in Blake Griffin. Then was the center piece to getting draft picks from Sixers. Oladipo on the other hand was the center piece to getting traded for another superstar in Paul George. Then traded for Levert while being injured.
quote:
We are talking about a young magic team whose young players weren’t even that good, who later we will learn they are meant to be ancillary pieces on a team
You can’t tell me a team of
Evan Fournier
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon
Tobias Harris
Nikola Vucevic
With a bench of Elfrid Payton, Ben Gordon, Willie Green, Channing Frye, Maurice Harkless and Dewayne Desmond is a 25-57 team in the East.
This post was edited on 6/27/21 at 12:05 pm
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