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re: Expected roster moves for next year?
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:04 am to Lester Earl
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:04 am to Lester Earl
I think it will be a 3 + 1. It matches the 4 years he’d get from other teams so he wouldn’t leave anything on the table if the worst happens, but it also lets Mr. 0doubt bet on himself and get a raise after only 3 years if he comes back strong.
0
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:05 am to Epic Cajun
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/11/23 at 3:48 am
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:06 am to Lester Earl
2+1 has been the primary speculation for a while now. Coincides with AD’s contract and allows him to hit a bigger contract earlier due to years of service. Benefits both sides due to the injury for us and the aforementioned reasons for Boogie.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:07 am to Lester Earl
The biggest reason to bring Boogie back other than the fact it’s the best use of our cap space?
Perception
We show the league that the NOP front office cares about their players. We show AD that we are committed to him and making him happy. We can lie to ourselves (and free agents) and say “if we were good enough to finish 6th without Boogie, imagine how good we will be with Boogie back and you, PG-13. So demand that trade.” You can say the same thing to FA to sign for less money. When I say lie I more so mean we can genuinely be as optimistic as we want. Just like we can be optimistic as say “if Boogie wouldn’t have gotten hurt, we’d easily be in the 3rd spot.” Again I say "lie" because the above mentioned doesnt have to be true to be believable.
Perception
We show the league that the NOP front office cares about their players. We show AD that we are committed to him and making him happy. We can lie to ourselves (and free agents) and say “if we were good enough to finish 6th without Boogie, imagine how good we will be with Boogie back and you, PG-13. So demand that trade.” You can say the same thing to FA to sign for less money. When I say lie I more so mean we can genuinely be as optimistic as we want. Just like we can be optimistic as say “if Boogie wouldn’t have gotten hurt, we’d easily be in the 3rd spot.” Again I say "lie" because the above mentioned doesnt have to be true to be believable.
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 4/8/18 at 12:06 pm to DeionDeion
Sign boogie to a 2+1.
Hopefully be able to keep rondo, I'll be ok with Jackson as the 4th guard.
Trade hill+1st for a halfway useful wing mid-season. Hopefully his play actually improves to where it was in '16
Hopefully be able to keep rondo, I'll be ok with Jackson as the 4th guard.
Trade hill+1st for a halfway useful wing mid-season. Hopefully his play actually improves to where it was in '16
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 4/8/18 at 1:21 pm to DeionDeion
quote:
Just like we can be optimistic as say “if Boogie wouldn’t have gotten hurt, we’d easily be in the 3rd spot.”
it would only have taken another two wins and they’d be at 3 now...any two wins including that last game vs POR that they led the whole damn game.
you get into the playoffs by winning your division games and by beating bad teams. The pels have lost too many of both and now have to fight just to get in
this “should” have been a 50 win team solidly positioned to make some playoff noise, boogie or not
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 4/8/18 at 1:40 pm to msutiger
quote:
s Achilles injuries are an unknown
Posted on 4/9/18 at 9:32 am to Lester Earl
I know most of us (including myself) were in the camp of getting Fournier via Moore & Solo (or Solo & Mirotic), but I'm starting to think it's fool's gold. If you look at advanced stats Moore's defense covers for Fournier's better offense:
Fournier: USG& = 23.3 WS = 3.3 WS/48 = 0.86 OBPM = 1.6 DBPM = -2.1 BPM = -0.5
Moore: USG& = 16.1 WS 4.0 WS/48 = 0.76. OBPM = 0.5 DBPM = -0.9. BPM = -0.4
Fournier is a focal point in Orlando's offense which I think can largely explain his 17.8 PPG. He's also shooting a lesser % from the field and from the 3pt line. So my question is 2-fold. What do you think Moore's future is with the team (keep or use him in a trade)? Would you still use Moore to grab Fournier or someone else (and who)?
Fournier: USG& = 23.3 WS = 3.3 WS/48 = 0.86 OBPM = 1.6 DBPM = -2.1 BPM = -0.5
Moore: USG& = 16.1 WS 4.0 WS/48 = 0.76. OBPM = 0.5 DBPM = -0.9. BPM = -0.4
Fournier is a focal point in Orlando's offense which I think can largely explain his 17.8 PPG. He's also shooting a lesser % from the field and from the 3pt line. So my question is 2-fold. What do you think Moore's future is with the team (keep or use him in a trade)? Would you still use Moore to grab Fournier or someone else (and who)?
This post was edited on 4/9/18 at 9:35 am
Posted on 4/9/18 at 10:12 am to DeionDeion
quote:
I know most of us (including myself) were in the camp of getting Fournier via Moore & Solo (or Solo & Mirotic), but I'm starting to think it's fool's gold.
Make no mistake, as much as his name has been brought up Fournier is not a great player, but he's a decent player with a good fit because of how versatile he is on offense. He can shoot, score on drives and cuts, and averages almost 3 assists per game which is a good number for a SG/SF.
As for what I'd trade for him. The Asik trade and the premium teams are placing on 1st round picks makes me believe you could do Ajinca/Solo/1st for Fournier. Considering that Fournier makes $17 a year you really need to build the trade around Solo rather than Moore anyway.
Fournier would be my fall back target rather than my primary target, but if you can turn Solo/Ajinca into Fournier the team gets better. They still have defensive issues but they really increase their offensive firepower to make up for it.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 10:28 am to TigerinATL
I had always been under the assumption that Moore or Mirotic would go out in that trade, and I'm realizing that I'm not ok with that. But I yes that was my only caveat. Playing Fournier a majority at the 3 and trading Solo/Ajinca as opposed to Moore. That I could get behind for sure
Rondo/Clark/FJ
Jrue/Moore/Crawford
Fournier/Miller/Liggins
AD/Mirotic/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
There aren't really any other options for a realistic and beneficial trade other than: Solo/Ajinca for Reggie Jackson (meh)
R Jackson/Rondo/FJ
Jrue/Clark/Crawford
Moore/Miller/Liggins
AD/Mirotic/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
or Solo/Mirotic/1st for Kemba/Marvin Williams (in a heartbeat) or Mirotic/Moore/Ajinca/1st for Kemba/Marvin Williams (more realistic on CHA side)
Kemba/Rondo/FJ
Jrue/Clark/Crawford
Solo/Miller/Liggins
AD/Williams/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
-these 3 options are under the assumption we resign Rondo & Clark
I mean sure I could toss in John Wall or PG13 but those are both extremely improbable. Slightly more improbable than the Kemba idea.
Rondo/Clark/FJ
Jrue/Moore/Crawford
Fournier/Miller/Liggins
AD/Mirotic/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
There aren't really any other options for a realistic and beneficial trade other than: Solo/Ajinca for Reggie Jackson (meh)
R Jackson/Rondo/FJ
Jrue/Clark/Crawford
Moore/Miller/Liggins
AD/Mirotic/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
or Solo/Mirotic/1st for Kemba/Marvin Williams (in a heartbeat) or Mirotic/Moore/Ajinca/1st for Kemba/Marvin Williams (more realistic on CHA side)
Kemba/Rondo/FJ
Jrue/Clark/Crawford
Solo/Miller/Liggins
AD/Williams/Diallo
Cousins/Mek
-these 3 options are under the assumption we resign Rondo & Clark
I mean sure I could toss in John Wall or PG13 but those are both extremely improbable. Slightly more improbable than the Kemba idea.
This post was edited on 4/9/18 at 11:52 am
Posted on 4/9/18 at 10:28 am to DeionDeion
quote:
What do you think Moore's future is with the team (keep or use him in a trade)?
i would not be in a hurry to move Moore. he is a good, dependable player. they need more guys like that. obviously, if they could trade Moore for a better, taller version of himself, I'm in.
you never know what will shake out, but Moore for Founier doesn't move the needle much for me. at this point, unless they're getting a star player, it's much more about fit around Davis/Cousins/Holiday than anything else. Moore fits pretty well
Posted on 4/9/18 at 10:35 am to corndeaux
quote:
Moore fits pretty well
he does...the question is, can you get moore-like production for less than 8MM, ie: can he be replaced under the frightening roster building restrictions they are going to face
in a trade, maybe.
in a minimum signing or a 2nd round pick? not likely at all.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 10:57 am to cgrand
right. if Moore is heading out the door, we better be damn sure it's for an upgrade or a part of a trade that gives us flexibility for another move.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 11:01 am to cgrand
quote:
he does...the question is, can you get moore-like production for less than 8MM, ie: can he be replaced under the frightening roster building restrictions they are going to face
I think his price is probably too high, but Josh Richardson would be an ideal target. Cost controlled at ~$10M/yr over next 3 years. Plus versatile defender (1-4), good shooter, and developing offense. Jrue and Richardson perimeter defense would be awesome.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 11:09 am to NOFOX
Id love Josh Richardson
Posted on 4/9/18 at 11:23 am to corndeaux
quote:
obviously, if they could trade Moore for a better, taller version of himself, I'm in.
Why does he need to be taller?
He's not a 3.
He's a backup 2, and I would love to bring back Clark and Miller and have those 3 as the backup 1, 2 and 3.
What we need, and what we always needed, is an offensive player at the 1 or 3. Rondo can stay, but we need a better 3. Or Solo can stay, but we need a better 1(this assumes Solo remembers how to play basketball again).
I'd much rather Fournier than Moore, and i'm a big fan of Moore, and his contract.
Fournier puts up numbers on a team where he is always the focal point of the defense, and his supporting cast is terrible.
Moore is the 4th option at best when on the court. It's a lot easier to shoot 40% from 3 when the defense is trying their best to stop other options from happening and are somewhat ok with letting the 4th option guy after Jrue/AD/Cousins take a 3.
You can tell the coahches have been getting guys like Moore/Miller/Clark to pump fake those 3's and penetrate, and good things have been happening. None of those guys are good finishers. The floaters have been nice, as well as the wide open mid range jumpers. Fournier is a better finisher than all of them. The decision making from our 3 have been great as of late on whether to shoot or drive.
If there's a way to get rid of Solo and replace him with Fournier, i'd jump all over it. I don't think that can happen though. the opposing team is going to want a bigger expiring, like Niko. Ajinca's $5M won't be enough. i'd love to keep Niko, especially the way he's been playign since he shaved, but they have got to trade him for something good before the deadline next year. Can't let him walk for nothing, and i doubt we could resign him, and i wouldn't want to b/c there's no need to have that much money invested in the 4/5 position after AD/Cousins.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 11:39 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I don't think that can happen though. the opposing team is going to want a bigger expiring, like Niko.
I would have said the same thing before the Asik/Mirotic trade, but that showed how few teams are willing to give up a 1st right now. Orlando has a new GM, they just dumped their PG of the future for 2nds, and pretty much everyone is available but the 20 year old they just drafted. Fournier was listed in rumors last year, if they actually want a 1st to help the rebuild, they may have to take back what the Pels are offering. If I were a rebuilding Orlando I'd take Solo and flip Jonathan Simmons.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 12:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Why does he need to be taller?
He's not a 3.
He's a backup 2
The fact that he has been able to log some decent minutes at the 3 kind of shows a quirky fit with this roster. Jrue often switches over to the 3 defensively if Moore is over-matched. Jrue's defensive versatility gives you a lot of flexibility in your rotations.
Posted on 4/9/18 at 12:12 pm to Jester
quote:
Jrue often switches over to the 3 defensively if Moore is over-matched. Jrue's defensive versatility gives you a lot of flexibility in your rotations.
excellent point, but thats a patch-job and not ideal.
but youre right in that moore has been forced to guard bigger players, due to roster inadequacies (again, not ideal)
with any decent 3 that can guard his man in say 60% of games, jrue can take care of his man and cover the switch without missing a beat
then, you've got a reliable defense
Posted on 4/9/18 at 2:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Why does he need to be taller?
He's not a 3.
He's a backup 2,
what is the difference on offense between a 1, 2, and 3 that aren't primary ball handlers and can shoot 3s?
Clark, Moore, Miller are all wings. Miller is the only one with the height to fit your traditional positional labels. find a 6'9" Moore and the Pels are a much more interesting team
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