- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: David Griffin Q&A
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:37 pm to htran90
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:37 pm to htran90
That Fultz trade is one where he didn’t get what would be a “blue book” win but he won it simply because he got the guy at 3 he would have taken at 1 and got paid to move down in the process.
Some GMs have the ego that requires them to “win” a trade. In that case, Ainge took what would be considered a loss on paper and profited between extra picks and paying for Tatum at a lower contract slotted value.
Some GMs have the ego that requires them to “win” a trade. In that case, Ainge took what would be considered a loss on paper and profited between extra picks and paying for Tatum at a lower contract slotted value.
0
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:37 pm to htran90
Ainge is a good GM but his teams haven’t won anything yet.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:42 pm to TigerinATL
It also shows his miscalculation. Because if Ainge knew all he would get for trading down to 3 is the 14th pick two years later, he would never do it. He also agreed to it before the 1st and 2nd picks were known, so there is a chance it could have really gone wrong.
I was told that if Lakers take Tatum #2 (or someone trades up for it), then he would have been just as happy with Josh Jackson at #3.
Imagine that world, where he gives up #1 for Josh Jackson and #14 two years later.
Point is that I am not saying he is bad. But he is not some next level genius. He trades are fair - even the T'Wolves one for Garnett helped them accomplish what they wanted in getting bad and getting high picks. If they pair Steph with Love and got some good years out of Al Jefferson, then both teams win. But Kahn takes Flynn and Rubio instead of Curry.
I would not be afraid AT ALL to trade with Ainge. He makes fair trades and you can even argue overpays when he really wants something. Luck has just skewed the end results
I was told that if Lakers take Tatum #2 (or someone trades up for it), then he would have been just as happy with Josh Jackson at #3.
Imagine that world, where he gives up #1 for Josh Jackson and #14 two years later.
Point is that I am not saying he is bad. But he is not some next level genius. He trades are fair - even the T'Wolves one for Garnett helped them accomplish what they wanted in getting bad and getting high picks. If they pair Steph with Love and got some good years out of Al Jefferson, then both teams win. But Kahn takes Flynn and Rubio instead of Curry.
I would not be afraid AT ALL to trade with Ainge. He makes fair trades and you can even argue overpays when he really wants something. Luck has just skewed the end results
Posted on 4/23/19 at 7:55 pm to Crewz
quote:
I was told that if Lakers take Tatum #2 (or someone trades up for it), then he would have been just as happy with Josh Jackson at #3.
It is better to be lucky than good.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:01 pm to TigerinATL
But over enough time, the luck will balance out. And if her thesis was, "don't trade with this guy because he gets super lucky and his trade partners get really unlucky." - that would be fine. But she is implying he is on another level. He isn't
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:06 pm to Crewz
It’s not just luck either, the Brooklyn deal worked out so well it gave him enough assets to let him be both more reckless and more patient than others. Most GMs’ normal sized asset cache gives them a smaller margin of error and tighter timelines to work with.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 8:07 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:12 pm to TigerinATL
But that was luck too. If you ask Ainge what he was expecting to get back on the night he made that trade, he wasn't expecting 20 percent of that return. The Celtics own super fan Bill Simmons hated the deal the night of the draft.
Again, I am not stupid enough to argue the results. But he did not pull the wool over anyone's eyes, as Rachel implies
Again, I am not stupid enough to argue the results. But he did not pull the wool over anyone's eyes, as Rachel implies
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:19 pm to TigerinATL
Yea it's frustrating reading the takes on r/nba about how Ainge just hypnotizes every trade partner into giving him a lopsided trade, or that he has the ability to force teams to trade assets for pennies against their will.
It also helps immensely when a trade partner is disgustingly overvaluing your assets. Prokorov wanting a championship in year 1 so having his gm give up every future asset for garnett and pierce. Vivek giving up cousins for Buddy (who at the time was an underperforming rookie who was already 23) because he believed he was a combination of Klay and Steph.
It also helps immensely when a trade partner is disgustingly overvaluing your assets. Prokorov wanting a championship in year 1 so having his gm give up every future asset for garnett and pierce. Vivek giving up cousins for Buddy (who at the time was an underperforming rookie who was already 23) because he believed he was a combination of Klay and Steph.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:29 pm to Crewz
quote:
But that was luck too.
Right, and it was so lucky it financed a strategy that flew in the face of conventional wisdom smart GMing. When you’re playing with house money you can afford to bet big on a 3 and D wing like Winslow or pass on stars like Butler and George to hold out for even bigger stars.
I’m not taking luck out of the equation, I’m saying he got so lucky he got away with being what many would call stupid.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 8:31 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:38 pm to TigerinATL
Thats all good. I just coming back to the only thing that matters - Would you be afraid to trade with him because you think he is so smart and/or manipulative?
I see no evidence to be worried one bit if Ainge is the guy Griffin trades with.
I see no evidence to be worried one bit if Ainge is the guy Griffin trades with.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:46 pm to Crewz
I think regardless of luck, we have a big advantage with him and Griffin being close. Like Griffin said, they can see past each others BS and go straight into serious negotiations. The only thing that worries me is that Griffin would possibly piss Ainge off and Ainge backs out to try and low ball our offer knowing they have the best package. I doubt that happens and I do trust Griffin enough to not cave in such a situation.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:50 pm to Dantheman504
There are enough teams that Griffin could leverage. He could also leverage the option of keeping AD and trying to prove to him the franchise is different. The supertax that only we can offer can be offered again next summer. And even if Ainge believes Griffin would be dumb to try that, the truth is that Ainge loses the chance to get AD if he hits free agency without ever being in the Celtics building. It could also lose him Kyrie this summer too.
I really don't think the Celtics have any leverage in this situation. At all. If they want him, they will pay big. Then, it will be up to Griffin to maximize those assets
I really don't think the Celtics have any leverage in this situation. At all. If they want him, they will pay big. Then, it will be up to Griffin to maximize those assets
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:50 pm to Crewz
Boston media lionizes him to be sure. They have been lucky. Every title contender is lucky. Every champion is the luckiest. Celtics could easily be a 45 win team for the foreseeable future after all of the picks and trades over the years if Kyrie walks out.
Re: the draft, I'm not sure it's luck to say they have a pretty strong understanding of which players will fit into their system and culture. Impossible to know if Jackson is as poor with a competent team like Boston instead of the tire fire in PHX. Jaylen Brown was another raw wing.
Even if Kyrie does leave, they will still be competent because they do have such a strong organization. I'll take that over a team relying almost exclusively on luck to be competent, like the Pels have been for forever (until hopefully the Griffin signing)
Re: the draft, I'm not sure it's luck to say they have a pretty strong understanding of which players will fit into their system and culture. Impossible to know if Jackson is as poor with a competent team like Boston instead of the tire fire in PHX. Jaylen Brown was another raw wing.
Even if Kyrie does leave, they will still be competent because they do have such a strong organization. I'll take that over a team relying almost exclusively on luck to be competent, like the Pels have been for forever (until hopefully the Griffin signing)
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:56 pm to corndeaux
Again, I am not arguing he is bad or that he is all luck. Just that there is nothing in his history that makes me think he is out thinking or manipulating or out negotiating other GMs. I think he makes fair trades when you consider the objectives of both teams.
It would be like saying the Warriors duped us in the Baron Davis trade because they got Baron Davis and we got Speedy Claxton. Sure, Davis is the superior player but the two franchises had two different objectives and each made the trade to accomplish their objective.
If the AD deal goes down with Celtics, I won't have one ounce of fear that Ainge will outsmart Griffin.
It would be like saying the Warriors duped us in the Baron Davis trade because they got Baron Davis and we got Speedy Claxton. Sure, Davis is the superior player but the two franchises had two different objectives and each made the trade to accomplish their objective.
If the AD deal goes down with Celtics, I won't have one ounce of fear that Ainge will outsmart Griffin.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 8:57 pm to Crewz
I agree completely. If Griffin is truly invested in bringing a championship here, I wouldn't be too surprised if he holds on to AD until someone wants to pay up. In all honesty that may scare teams more than anything because AD might end up staying depending on the type of team Griffin wants to assemble. I think it also helps for the fact that Griffin seems to be a guy looking for the best overall package for the team and its future instead of chasing just certain players or playing styles he likes.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 9:06 pm to Crewz
Agree completely about Griffin dealing with Ainge.
Don't know about out thinking, but I do think they have a very well defined identity and that is an advantage for them.
That may have finally changed some this year with their issues. I still like the talent they can offer for Davis in a trade
quote:
he is out thinking
Don't know about out thinking, but I do think they have a very well defined identity and that is an advantage for them.
That may have finally changed some this year with their issues. I still like the talent they can offer for Davis in a trade
Posted on 4/24/19 at 10:29 am to Crewz
If prior reports are an indication, it sure appears that Boston/Ainge really wants AD. If so, I cannot see him lowballing and risking losing AD to another team because, as you said, he is not likely to get a shot at AD in free agency.
Page 2 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News