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Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:11 pm to shel311
quote:
The question is is he as good or has he deserved minutes over those guys. The answer is pretty obviously no.
I disagree that that is the question. I get why coaches don't like guys that break their systems. When the defense works it's because everyone does what they're supposed to do. One guy out of place opens holes, it's why Trey didn't play a lot early last season.
But the intact system just hasn't been working. For the season the Pels are 9th in DRtg. In January they were 19th and in February they were 22nd. It just seems like Jaxson's skill set fits some of our defensive holes but because he's a knucklehead, Willie would need to sacrifice the integrity of his scheme some to use him. That's his job. To figure those things out, especially when what he's doing clearly isn't working.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:19 pm to TigerinATL
quote:You are correct that this is Willie's job to figure it out...in totality.
But the intact system just hasn't been working. For the season the Pels are 9th in DRtg. In January they were 19th and in February they were 22nd. It just seems like Jaxson's skill set fits some of our defensive holes but because he's a knucklehead, Willie would need to sacrifice the integrity of his scheme some to use him. That's his job. To figure those things out, especially when what he's doing clearly isn't working.
But at the same time, coaches aren't miracle workers. Some dudes just aren't very good, and no coach or scheme can make them very good. We are in year 4 of this with Jax, under 3 coaches now, right? And there really hasn't been much noted improvement, it's kinda the same thing we've seen since year 1. Raw athleticism, but zero understanding of where to be and what to do on both sides of the ball. I wonder if we're just being skewed by the past 2 nights, because before 2 games ago, I don't know I had seen a positive Jax post in months, because there was nothing overall he did to be positive about.
I've certainly soured big time on Willie this season, but at the same time, he can't make every below average player a decent rotation player.
Again, i'll be more than happy if we're getting our mid to late season Jax surge, and that Jax should get minutes and does help us out. My only argument is he has not played well enough in the season to deserve more minutes in the rotation. If he gets minutes form injuries, so be it. If he shows his mid to late season surge coming in those minutes, then that is him using those minutes to prove he deserves time. But that, again, is based on the now and moving forward. The past, he wasn't playing like that, there really wasn't much to point to say we'd be better if that guy was getting more minutes.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:34 pm to shel311
I'm not looking for Jax to improve, I've been ready to trade him for awhile. But for now he's on the roster and he has the unique skill set on this team of being able to guard 1-4.5, he just can't be relied upon as a team defender. So find ways to either get him in the action, or assign him to their bad offensive player so he can roam.
I haven't changed my opinion on Jaxson, and I've said repeatedly he should get minutes but not every game, it just depends on the matchup. But some of those games where Jonas was getting killed you can't tell me Jaxson couldn't have helped.
On the season JV's DRtg is 114.5. In January it was 120.7 and 118 in February. While Jaxson has a negative NetRtg on the season, his DRtg is 108.4. Maybe if Willie had tried Jaxson it would have failed, but what he had wasn't working, he had something different on the bench that looks like it could help and he didn't even try it.
Again, I'm not saying Jaxson is some savior the team has been missing. But once teams started to consistently target JV, Willie needed to change things other than putting as many 6'8 defenders on the court as he could. I've thought for a while that if Larry is so much better than JV at finishing, why don't you start him too? Maybe JV doesn't get killed as much in a bench role.
Ultimately this isn't about Jaxson, it's about Willie. Hopefully the injuries have forced him to see something he wouldn't have seen otherwise. That's kind of how he got on board with Point Zion, because he seemed really reluctant to move that way at first until BI going down forced his hand.
quote:
I wonder if we're just being skewed by the past 2 nights
I haven't changed my opinion on Jaxson, and I've said repeatedly he should get minutes but not every game, it just depends on the matchup. But some of those games where Jonas was getting killed you can't tell me Jaxson couldn't have helped.
On the season JV's DRtg is 114.5. In January it was 120.7 and 118 in February. While Jaxson has a negative NetRtg on the season, his DRtg is 108.4. Maybe if Willie had tried Jaxson it would have failed, but what he had wasn't working, he had something different on the bench that looks like it could help and he didn't even try it.
Again, I'm not saying Jaxson is some savior the team has been missing. But once teams started to consistently target JV, Willie needed to change things other than putting as many 6'8 defenders on the court as he could. I've thought for a while that if Larry is so much better than JV at finishing, why don't you start him too? Maybe JV doesn't get killed as much in a bench role.
Ultimately this isn't about Jaxson, it's about Willie. Hopefully the injuries have forced him to see something he wouldn't have seen otherwise. That's kind of how he got on board with Point Zion, because he seemed really reluctant to move that way at first until BI going down forced his hand.
This post was edited on 3/2/23 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:44 pm to LSUPilot07
Herb Jones is taller than Draymond Green and if he can be a 3/4ths Herbmond Green, everything else can fix itself rather quickly.
Sure we will get shite on by double bigs, but you gotta hope Larry and Zion can step up.
BI just needs to be who he was last night.
There was a shite ton that could be used from last nights game to refine, workout, and improve on.
I just dont see why we need JV to start anymore if Herb can do the job (which still remains up in the air but looked promising.)
FYI Draymond is 6'6 / Herb is 6'7. Its just all about want to.
Sure we will get shite on by double bigs, but you gotta hope Larry and Zion can step up.
BI just needs to be who he was last night.
There was a shite ton that could be used from last nights game to refine, workout, and improve on.
I just dont see why we need JV to start anymore if Herb can do the job (which still remains up in the air but looked promising.)
FYI Draymond is 6'6 / Herb is 6'7. Its just all about want to.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:50 pm to 50_Tiger
Interesting chart from Shamit which is just more evidence that Willie should give JV coming off the bench a try. Basically CJ + JV = really bad defense.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:57 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:I hope so too but it's probably more siutational.
I just dont see why we need JV to start anymore if Herb can do the job (which still remains up in the air but looked promising.)
FYI Draymond is 6'6 / Herb is 6'7. Its just all about want to.
And as much as we love Herb, and maybe he can do it much more often, just pointing out that Draymond is a generational good AND smart defender.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 1:59 pm to TigerinATL
quote:WIthout looking at data, that's a take I had wayyyy earlier in the season.
Interesting chart from Shamit which is just more evidence that Willie should give JV coming off the bench a try. Basically CJ + JV = really bad defense.
It was centered around a healthier team, in that JV is best with the ball in his hand, but he'll have the ball in his hands the least around CJ/BI/Zion, whereas Nance doesn't need the ball in his hands to be his best self.
So it always made sense IMO to swap them out and have Nance start, and JV play with more of the subs where we can feed him the ball and let him work more.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 2:04 pm to shel311
quote:
And as much as we love Herb, and maybe he can do it much more often, just pointing out that Draymond is a generational good AND smart defender.
If the Not on Herb thing has any real merit, he doesnt have to be generational. Just has to be very good.
I will agree though the jury is still out and its literally just one game.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 2:23 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:Yea, if this unlocked something, that would be pretty awesome.
I will agree though the jury is still out and its literally just one game.
Even with the Golden State lineup of death though, they didn't do it much. Pretty sure it was only like 5-10 minuets a game or something like that.
This post was edited on 3/2/23 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 3/2/23 at 2:58 pm to shel311
quote:
wonder if we're just being skewed by the past 2 nights, because before 2 games ago,
Hayes is a rhythm player. Through his time here he looks better with more run.
Whether he deserves more run or not is the eternal question with him.
He can’t be on the court with Zion, even in an ultra big lineup, as neither can shoot.
So where does he fit?
As stated by others, coaches want backups to fit into their systems. Hayes doesn’t really do that. Hard to plug him in. Thus his he never finds his rhythm unless Zion is out.
His player profile is certainly needed with this team though. That’s on the front office for not upgrading.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 2:59 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Interesting chart from Shamit which is just more evidence that Willie should give JV coming off the bench a try. Basically CJ + JV = really bad defense.
Agreed.
If JV is on the court you should run everything through him, at his pace. Otherwise it’s a negative
Posted on 3/2/23 at 4:33 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Basically CJ + JV = really bad defense.
which is why i said in the trade target thread that we should be quietly looking to trade CJ. JV isn't a long term piece here, and he's not someone i'd expect to be in closing lineups anyway, so it's not a big deal for him to stay on the team.
But BI and Zion aren't good defenders, and neither is CJ. Doesn't matter who's at the 5, they are going to have a hard time defending with those 3 on the court.
I'd really rather if we just started Dyson instead of Herb. Dyson is the future at PG for us, and CJ has always been more of an off the ball guard. I hate how we handled Kira and never truly let him play PG. And it's like we are doing the same with Dyson and tyring to turn him into a 3&D guy. Give the kid the reins and let him play pg for us. I'm fine with the growing pains of this 19 year old. If he isn't a true PG, then fine, he'll be a very good 3&D guy, but lets see if he has it in him or not first.
there's one guy out there that i keep thinking about how to make it work with BI and Zion, and that's Pascal Siakam. Obviously CJ would have to go out to get him, but a small ball lineup where Siakam is the 5 would be very interesting to me.
I think about the switchability of a lineup with
Dyson
BI
Zion
Trey
Siakam
and if Dyson becomes a competent 3 point shooter, that's a really strong lineup offensively.
Seeing Dyson up close when i sat behind the bench recently, he's a big guy. He's every bit of 6'8".
Posted on 3/2/23 at 8:32 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
which is why i said in the trade target thread that we should be quietly looking to trade CJ.
Dude is a leader. We need him. He could’ve shut it down with his thumb injury but has gutted it out.
This team needs that example. Both in the short term and the long term.
Posted on 3/2/23 at 8:46 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
which is why i said in the trade target thread that we should be quietly looking to trade CJ.
Not this season, but maybe after next season, or at the deadline. We aren't going to pay tax at a Golden State level, and we can't let our young talent walk, so I think we have CJ for one more season. By that time, one of the Dyson/Jose/Kira group needs to be ready to start, or we have to use the rest of our picks on a younger quality starting guard.
This post was edited on 3/2/23 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 3/2/23 at 11:56 pm to jmcwhrter
quote:
I didn't get to watch the game so I went back and checked the highlights.. From the comments here, it sounded like we were moving the ball, setting screens, getting open looks, etc.. They must have left that off the highlight reel because it looked like the same old shite.. BI and CJ dribbling into 3 guys in the paint while the rest of the team stands still at the three point line.. and it took BI making some ridiculous mid-range shots for us to pull out the win Even on our highlight reel it looks like our offensive possessions are so difficult
Thank you. I turned the game off in the 2nd, the offense and defense was too frustrating for me to watch.
It’s like if we win, ppl say they played good. Even when team was like 2nd in western standings I was telling someone team needs more shooters, length, and a shot blocker.
I come on this board and read ppl saying don’t change a thing, this team is stacked lol.
If one injured player causes you to free fall to fighting for play-in spot…..
Posted on 3/3/23 at 2:01 am to Stamps74
quote:
I come on this board and read ppl saying don’t change a thing, this team is stacked lol.
Please. People here have said they needed to add a shooter and defensive big since the offseason and haven’t stopped saying it because it’s still true. Many have also regularly hated on JV and fantasized about upgrading him. Nobody here was really happy about the lack of moves at the deadline, and although Richardson is an upgrade over Graham, most called it for what it was, a financial move to avoid the tax next season.
In the Portland game the team was much more active on both sides of the ball. They even played much of the 4th with Herb at center. I’m not saying they turned a corner because Portland has a bad defense and worse big situation than the Pels that allowed them to play small ball. But they did play differently than they had been.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 2:09 am
Posted on 3/3/23 at 4:21 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
Dude is a leader. We need him. He could’ve shut it down with his thumb injury but has gutted it out.
This team needs that example. Both in the short term and the long term.
I 100% agree. And i don't really want to trade him, but i think it's going to be very hard to compete defensively with CJ/BI/Zion on the court, and i say that with very little info to truly go off of.
CJ has been on this team for 97 games. He's missed 8 games total.
We've had these 3 stars for 97 games now, and we've seen them together for 10 of them. we are 6-4 in those games.
How depressing is that? 10 games together out of 97 and counting.
We keep hearing media people say the Pelicans are a scary team when everyone is healthy and i wouldn't want to play them in the playoffs. If Zion even comes back this season, when he does it'll be like a whole new team that has to get used to playing with each other again, and we are running out of games to get the rhythm of playing together down.
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