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CaptainJ47
Hawaii Fan
Gonzales
Member since Nov 2007
5710 posts

Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Just checking in since the Rockets loss and we crucified Jrue. Where did/are we shipping him to?


tgr4ever
Georgia Southern Fan
The Boro
Member since Jul 2011
15538 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
jprdbulldog punching the air right now


jprdbulldog20
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2013
7960 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
jrues issue has always been and will always be inconsistency on the offensive end. tonight we got good jrue thankfully


ForeverEllisHugh
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2016
5071 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
If our medical staff weren’t so uber conservative we’d be well on our way to seeing Jrue grow that mustache and balling out


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41
BobBarker
Davidson Fan
Bompton
Member since Nov 2012
10496 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Nope. Please do not look through my post history BTW.


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50
Tigerbiscuits
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Mid-City
Member since Nov 2011
697 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Jrues my favorite pel. One good game doesn't absolve him from inconsistent play. If he's (supposed to be) your best or 2nd best player, he has to do this more often than not.


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1770 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

jrues issue has always been and will always be inconsistency on the offensive end. tonight we got good jrue thankfully


Correct. The reason we didn’t have this thread the three games prior from OP was because Jrue went basically 12 for 40 on his field goals, 2 for 21 from three, and averaged almost as many turnovers as assists in two of those three games.

After his last 30 point game coming back from injury he followed it up with two stinkers scoring only 12 points on 32% from the field and around 10% from three. Then went on to have three really solid games before slumping again.

Since coming back, offensively, he is about an even split in terms of good games and terrible games and that is just a difficult position if you are supposed to be the first or second scoring option on a team. Hopefully yesterday was a turning point for Jrue getting to a more even keeled point, but I think this far into his career the offensive inconsistency is a feature and not a bug and the team/fans need to just understand and acknowledge it for what it is and stop this silly cycle of people on either side focusing on only the nights your argument gets supported while pretending the other side doesn’t exist.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 8:07 am


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120
Billy Mays
Ole Miss Fan
Mandeville
Member since Jan 2009
21029 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
The problem with Jrue post-AD is expectations. We all know the equation is that happiness = expectations - reality. It was exacerbated by Griff crowing him as an MVP type player in the preseason. I get it was a strategic PR move, but fans got too excited.

What is certain is that he has exceeded my personal expectations since he has been here. When we traded for him he wasn’t nearly as good as he is now. He is a loyal and a mature leader and this team would be much worse with a replacement-level player.

Despite what the plebs will lead you to believe, he earns his contract. It’s all about perspective.



Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
467 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

The problem with Jrue post-AD is expectations.


No.
I’m a huge fan of jrue but he is a good player that has too many bad games.
It’s not like he is a bad player who every now and then gets hot and has a high scoring night. He is inconsistent. Not sure what the reason for that is; but it surely is not expectations from fans.


VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lap of Luxury
Member since Apr 2009
59812 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
I haven’t checked lately, but Jrue also was
near the top in assists. His game is pretty well-rounded.

I mostly care about the players and game on the court. I’m not a GM and have less interest in contract machinations and details. You guys go ahead and knock yourself out with salary cap details and contracts. Actually,I am mindful of those issues and I’m not unaware, but it’s damned sure not why I watch the game. When I critique performance, I rarely have a guy’s contract in mind. If I had to make decisions that mattered, it would be different.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 9:34 am


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REG861
Vanderbilt Fan
Wellsville
Member since Oct 2011
33036 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Because he has one good game out of every four games ? Admittedly outstanding performance last night but If he played liked last night every night we wouldn’t be on the outside looking in


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52039 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

If he played liked last night every night we wouldn’t be on the outside looking in


If he played like that every night he'd be a bonafide Super Star, which he isn't. People need to stop hating on Jrue for what he isn't and accept him for what he is. He's a good #3, which will be his natural role on the team once Ingram and Zion mature a bit more.


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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lap of Luxury
Member since Apr 2009
59812 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Nobody can bring their A Game every night.
Nobody. And the good Jrue appears a little more often than you suggested.


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00
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1770 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

I haven’t checked lately, but Jrue also was
near the top in assists. His game is pretty well-rounded.

I mostly care about the players and game on the court. I’m not a GM and have less interest in contract machinations and details. You guys go ahead and knock yourself out with salary cap details and contracts. Actually,I am mindful of those issues and I’m not unaware, but it’s damned sure not why I watch the game. When I critique performance, I rarely have a guy’s contract in mind. If I had to make decisions that mattered, it would be different.


He’s 18th in assists this season. However, I would argue that undervalues him this year but that it over-values his actual skillset/contribution in past years where the numbers suggested him as the 2nd or 3rd best assist man.

That said, most of what I speak to is about fit as well, and I just struggle to game out a realistic scenario where we are the dynasty we seek and are paying Jrue 30+ million as he approaches his 35th birthday as our third, and likely toward the end of that contract, fourth option.

I listed him as tied for my second favorite player on the team to go with Zion, so I like the guy, I just have yet to be convinced of a path forward that keeps our long-term goals of being championship competitive through Zion’s first two contracts(hoping to engender a third) and committing to Jrue through another long-term mega contract.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 11:06 am


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52039 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

I just struggle to game out a realistic scenario where we are the dynasty we seek and are paying Jrue 30+ million as he approaches his 35th birthday as our third, and likely toward the end of that contract, fourth option.


Just because we keep Jrue now and even resign him doesn't mean we keep him forever. Utah traded for a 32 year old Mike Conley and gave up Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver, Jae Crowder and 2 1sts to do it.

To me the hope is that you can develop or trade for a younger combo guard to pair with Lonzo long term. Jrue is the stand in until you find that guy. Once you do you look to trade him because you're right, he won't be worth that money to the Pels at the end of his deal. But when he's early or still in the middle of his next deal, there will always be a team like the Jazz that feel they're one piece away from taking that next step.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1770 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:


Just because we keep Jrue now and even resign him doesn't mean we keep him forever. Utah traded for a 32 year old Mike Conley and gave up Grayson Allen, Kyle Korver, Jae Crowder and 2 1sts to do it.

And I get that, and have considered it, but if our path forward in a few years is still the need to move on from Jrue, then you should be doing it at his peak value, no? So you get more than Jae Crowder and some late firsts.


Now maybe there is a scenario where the market dries up for him in the Summer and that becomes a more forced option, but to me it seems like if you want that long-term, younger combo guard, your best bet is the Summer where guys like Beal are probably going to be made available.


ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
12182 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
I think you will find a difficult time finding a better player than Holiday to slot in as your #3 option and starting guard opposite Lonzo.

They compliment each other so well.

Lonzo is a much better help defender. He plays some incredibly smart lanes and comes down in doubles with great timing. You also don’t see Lonzo get beat backdoor or sleeping. He’s a good on ball defender that can keep guys in front of him, but he’s an elite team defender.

Jrue is the opposite. He’s an incredible on ball defender to the point he can literally guard #1-5. Even in that GSW series where Durant feasted, he played excellent defense, but Durant is an absolute freak and knew he could shoot over him cleanly regardless of how good Holiday was doing. He knows how to put pressure on the ball handler without fouling. Jrue is the best on ball defender in the league imo. But Jrue is nowhere near the team defender that Lonzo is. He’s ok (I’d say his team defense “weakness” isn’t close to as good as Zo’s “on ball” also to be fair). He will occasionally attack as a helper, but it’s kind of hard when you get the “shutdown corner” assignment every night to help off the other teams superstars. But I’ve seen him get caught napping way too much for my taste, both backdoor cutting and allowing open, one-pass, threes. Both are physical enough to put bodies on potential rebounders, though advantage Lonzo here. Dudes a beast on the boards. When our defense is clicking, Favors is able to contain the paint, Lonzo is allowed to roam, and Jrue is allowed to attack the ballhandler, good god is it fun to watch.

Offensively, Lonzo’s best scoring asset is his set 3. Jrue has the ability to drive, collapse, and kick to Lonzo better than almost any 2 you’ll find. He’s not a natural distributor, but he’s so shifty and strong that he’s able to cause defenses to leave themselves exposed. Jrue himself is an excellent cutter in the halfcourt. I expect as they get comfortable, we will begin seeing more of those “backdoor” cuts we saw from Rondo/Jrue so often. Having a second player with Jrue’s skill sets also just allows you to have more options to attack directionally. It’s not “PG is here, screen comes, attack”. You can throw the ball along the wing and attack the defense from a different angle, especially after setting phony screens on the “strong side”. If Jrue could get his dang 3 back to high 30s, that’d be really nice.

Off the court, again, don’t think you could ask for a better mentor. Jrue is leading by example by saying he believes in these young guys. Both are fairly private dudes.

Here’s to hoping summer of 2020 has Jrue and Zo working out in LA together with his brothers and even Davis. That’d be really cool if some combo of NAW, Hart, or Ball participates. One thing you can say about Jrue. That dude is always in shape.


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
52039 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

if our path forward in a few years is still the need to move on from Jrue, then you should be doing it at his peak value, no?


The Pels now are like Boston was. They have more assets than they are likely to be able to properly use. Winning a title won't come down to flipping Jrue, it will come down to Zion and Ingram learning to win. Getting playoff experience because you still have guys like Jrue on your team is way more valuable than adding 2 more 1sts in the 20s to the asset portfolio.

The Thunder built themselves up through the draft, but after they drafted Harden, having picks didn't do them much good. From 2009 when they drafted Harden until today, Steven Adams and Reggie Jackson are the only significant piece they added in the draft. LINK

Because the major deficiency with our last 2 super stars was lack of talent, it's understandable to be focused on maximizing the talent on the roster. But this Pels team is starting from a completely different place than the AD and CP3 Hornicans.


ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
12182 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

The Pels now are like Boston was


We’re similar, but the major difference is Zion vs Tatum and Ingram vs Kemba or Brown.

Finding a 3rd superstar and mortgaging a bunch to get him to put next to what we hope are two championship caliber talents is slightly different if we have a top 2 and a top 10 player in a year or two. If Boston made Tatum untouchable and one other and mortgaged the rest for a 3rd superstar, I don’t think you go from very good to “automatic contender barring injury”.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 12:16 pm


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00
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
1770 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

The Pels now are like Boston was. They have more assets than they are likely to be able to properly use. Winning a title won't come down to flipping Jrue, it will come down to Zion and Ingram learning to win. Getting playoff experience because you still have guys like Jrue on your team is way more valuable than adding 2 more 1sts in the 20s to the asset portfolio.


Where did I say that is what I am seeking? Frankly, this post seems to largely argue against positions I didn’t state or infer to be taking.

I mentioned that what you would hope to achieve by cashing in at peak value is exactly what you mentioned, like bringing in a combo guard that is more aligned with our team’s long-term future, a guy like Beal that fits more ideally with our core. Or, trading in some of our chips with Jrue so we avoid a Boston situation where we have too many assets and not enough space. Which would both make the team better, deeper, and age with our core better. You would presumably still have some of the assets left over to continue developing young complimentary talent, but you finalize a championship caliber core of something like Lonzo, Beal, Ingram, Zion, Favors, Hayes, Naw, Reddick, developmental talent and MLE veteran leaders for the next 3-5 years. And I think that would be as good as any roster in the league as Zion and Ingram grow.

There are other scenarios for sure, but that is to illustrate I am not arguing to cash in Jrue for 2 late firsts, or to repeat the failures of Boston or OKC, you cash him in to get better and more whole over the next 3-6 years and maintain a more stable pipeline and asset portfolio.




This post was edited on 2/9 at 12:34 pm


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