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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

We already did this, I gave you the data, and you rejected the facts.


And if I find 2-3 games where DWest stunk it up and shot like shit, you're just going to make an excuse, correct?


I mean I can link the data from that season you chose, you wont find that sort of high variance in bunches like you get with Jrue. Or that much high variance. Or the type of putrid fourth quarter play while still dominating the ball.

LINK

Maybe the problem is you have just gaslit yourself and can’t understand why others see through it?


shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
78600 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

Maybe the problem is you have just gaslit yourself and can’t understand why others see through it?




Did you even bother to review the data in the link you provided?

Dwest has quite a few stretches of 2-4 games where he was complete shite.

I can't believe you linked that shite without looking at it first. If you don't see it proved you wrong and me right, I just don't know what to tell you.

Quick hitters on stretches I see just looking at it for not even 1 minute and not even the entire gamelog for the season:

- 4 game stretch shooting 31%, 14.5 FGA per game for 13.0 ppg
- 2 game stretch shooting 24.1%, 14.5 FGA per game for 10 ppg
- 2 game stretch shooting 30.8%, 13.0 FGA per game for 11 ppg




This is now twice you've asked to go find facts about DWest, and I've found the exact facts you thought did not exist.

And I feel like you're just going to make an excuse for this one and then ask me to go find something else.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 7:49 pm


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Show your work kid.

What stretches are you pulling that from. And so far you found 2 2 game stretches focusing just on points across roughly 76 games and one 3 game stretch. Which if they are the ones i suspect also featured some 14-16 rebound games. Including a bunch of offensive boards.

Still, nothing like what I showed from Jrue in just the last ten games, where 5 of them were utterly awful. While being the third worst high usage starter(based on a minutes criteria and plus 20% usage) in the fourth all season in terms of TS% amongst 55 qualifying peers. Only above Josh Richardson and RJ Barrett.

This post was edited on 2/9 at 8:03 pm


shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
78600 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

This is now twice you've asked to go find facts about DWest, and I've found the exact facts you thought did not exist.

And I feel like you're just going to make an excuse


Have a good night!!!


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Can’t back up your cherry picking when asked for receipts I see?



Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
667 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Can y’all give a brief summary of what the two sides of this long debate are ? I got lost
This post was edited on 2/9 at 8:15 pm


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
I mentioned Jrue is perhaps not an ideal fit long-term due to a number of factors, mostly timeline/financial obligations over the longer horizon, plus some on the court stuff like his crippling high variance from game to game and quarter to quarter.

I made an off hand comment that West is more of what you need in terms of output consistency from a second option.

Shel decided that in order to defend Jrue he would cherry pick aa narrow range of stats to drag down West in order to make Jrue look better in comparison. Somehow presuming if he can win that fight he somehow disproved Jrue isn’t problematically high variance? Makes no sense to me either. I asked for receipts and he pouted off
This post was edited on 2/9 at 8:20 pm


Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
667 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
I do think jrue can workout out long term ( see lowry last year on the raptors) but regarding the other point - I don’t care what any stats say; you knew what to expect each and every night from DWest. You cannot say the same about Jrue. It’s a crapshoot every game.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
As I mentioned to ATL, I think there are certainly pathways where it makes sense to recommit, but realistically I see them as unlikely, and less desirable when analyzing the possible opportunity costs.

And I am glad I am not sounding crazy here, West almost always found a way to be a positive offensive contributor every game. Even if his shot wasn’t falling he would be grabbing boards offensively and defensively to get the offense moving, setting great screens, or moving the ball as a hockey assist man from the elbow. He rarely lost you games or made critical errors.

Now if you push me, West was better suited as the perfect third option, but I think it is silly to claim Jrue is somehow equally consistent on that side of the ball.



This post was edited on 2/9 at 8:35 pm


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shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
78600 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

I asked for receipts and he pouted off


I proved you wrong twice, and you just shuffled on making excuses each time.


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Twice you gave cherry picked stats without context and tried to pre-empt getting called out by claiming that any doing so was me being unreasonable or moving goal posts.

It’s the height of childish debate tactics on your part.





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12
shel311
Nicholls St. Fan
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
78600 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

Which if they are the ones i suspect also featured some 14-16 rebound games
This right here point blank shows your bias.

West has a bad shooting night, you say, well he grabbed a bunch of rebounds.

When Jrue has a bad night, you completely ignore that he can guard 1 through 4 at an elite level.

Tell me how that does NOT show how biased you are. You're propping up grabbing rebounds as more important than elite level defense.

You would concede that flaw in your argument, correct?

Also funny that you shite on game score with a reason I can only presume you made up because you didn't give any objective data to back it up, saying Jrue had an advantage because he was a guard, West a forward. You're now contradicting yourself because you said when West had a bad shooting night, he could grab some rebounds, that props up his game score. When Jrue has a bad shooting night, he can play elite level on ball defense guarding whoever needs to be guarded from the other team, that does nothing for his game score. You would concede that contradiction on your part, correct?



Don't ask me to go and find stats again, i've done it twice, I think we can close the book on that now.


Puddinhead
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2003
4299 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

Maybe the problem is you have just gaslit yourself and can’t understand why others see through it?


It's cringy that you think everyone agrees with you but you've been all by yourself in this argument.


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31
Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
2165 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

When Jrue has a bad night, you completely ignore that he can guard 1 through 4 at an elite level.


I’ve never ignored that, cant say how many times I have said he is a model of defensive consistency these days. But boards are as much about offense as defense in basketball as they end possessions and start your offense, or prolong if on the offensive glass.

I asked you to show me the receipts so we can examine, you have so far refused. Got childish and pouted off.

You have also all but ignored component two of my argument which is around his quarter to quarter variance culminating in the third worst in the league in terms of fourth quarter TS% based on a the broad criteria I laid out. Jrue, to put it mildly, is terrible on offense when it matters most, which is in the critical fourth quarter of games. So even in his good games his quarter to quarter variance makes him more of a three quarter player. though if you really want to drill down, only his second quarter this season has been really good and does the heavy lifting for what is honestly poor offensive output much of the rest of the game, skewed worse toward the end.
This post was edited on 2/9 at 9:03 pm


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32
VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Apr 2009
60463 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Arguing whether DWest or Jrue is “worse” is kind of absurd guys. They both were/ are solid contributors and great for this franchise.

I remember posters bashing West every now and then. They were full of shite. As are some of the posts about Holiday.


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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
73909 posts
 Online 

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
I am.

He’s just too goddamned inconsistent. He was trash tonight.

Personally I’d prefer a player that is just consistently good, and not spectacular in some and trash in others.


LilWezyAna
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
BR
Member since Feb 2016
1918 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

Personally I’d prefer a player that is just consistently good

What are some examples of this at Jrue's tier? I'd say Beal or McCollum but do we know for sure they're consistent? Other team's fans (especially teams in the bottom half of the league) probably talk about their 2nd or 3rd guys just like we talk about Jrue


Jnola
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2016
433 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
Do you see jrue as a top 25player?


LilWezyAna
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
BR
Member since Feb 2016
1918 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
quote:

Do you see jrue as a top 25player?

This year? Not really, no. If we were in the East, he'd likely have fought for an all star spot. I'd probably have him 30-35 range. He's for sure playing like he's overpaid right now, but I don't think giving him the contract when we did was a bad move. He's regressed a little with scoring efficiency, which is weird because his 2 point shots are the shot that's gone down. i still do think he's a top 3 on ball perimeter defender in the league, and one of the top guards against bigger players, which is a valuable role.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:09 pm


tibebecolston
Member since Mar 2013
2205 posts

re: Are We Still Bashing Jrue?
How often does he dribble the ball off his own leg or foot. Its a given twice a game. I don’t get it.


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