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1
Posted on 11/29/20 at 6:16 am to Chalkywhite84
He's a top 1 center in hustle and heart. And he'll kick your arse.
Give me the 10th best center with heart over the 4th best center who just wants to get paid.
Give me the 10th best center with heart over the 4th best center who just wants to get paid.
This post was edited on 11/29/20 at 6:18 am
Posted on 11/29/20 at 7:24 am to bonethug0180
quote:
He's a top 1 center in hustle and heart. And he'll kick your arse.
Give me the 10th best center with heart over the 4th best center who just wants to get paid.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 11:34 am to Dantheman504
quote:
He is good enough to be in the talks for top 5 center. So far his 2 yr 35 mil extension and his 1 year with us will probably make him a top 3 center per contract/ output easily.
You and soggy both, show your receipts.
Tell me what centers you are placing behind Adams to get him to top 5.
I gave a very handy list a page ago and have challenged anyone making this claim to provide theirs and the rationale behind it and all I get are these blanket assertions, half assed cherry picked numbers, followed by crawfishing.
This post was edited on 11/29/20 at 11:34 am
Posted on 11/29/20 at 11:40 am to Soggymoss
quote:Are you sure I literally said that?
You literally said KAT is better at everything besides defense and screening.
I don't think I literally said that.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 11:50 am to shel311
Thought I was replying to the other guy.
Still waiting on you to explain how Gobert got played off the floor by Houston when you say a top 5 center would never get played off the floor though.
Still waiting on you to explain how Gobert got played off the floor by Houston when you say a top 5 center would never get played off the floor though.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 12:00 pm to Soggymoss
I mean you still haven’t made the case. Go look at the advanced metrics from NBA.com for the past few seasons, the only way you come to the conclusion Adams is the superior rebounder, assist man, blocked shot leader, box-out man, or offensive player is to manipulate and cherry pick, which is all you have done so far. Towns secured more rebounds for his team from boxing out and even in adjusted numbers he provides more rebounds for his team over the last several seasons. That’s with me giving Adams an additional rebound for every successful box out and adjusting per 36 to smooth out the minutes discrepancy, which alone makes it difficult to call someone top 5 who can’t play 34 minutes a night due to matchups but his peers can.
You have failed to provide your supposed list, you can’t put together a coherent and complete argument without massaging and cherry picking. You are for all intents and purposes not credible at this point and your opinions follow suit.
You have failed to provide your supposed list, you can’t put together a coherent and complete argument without massaging and cherry picking. You are for all intents and purposes not credible at this point and your opinions follow suit.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 12:48 pm to Bronc
Off the top of my head:
Gobert, Jokic, KAT, embiid, porzingis, and maybe ayton (can't tell if he's worth anything defensively)
Bam and AD (if you're calling them centers)
Gobert, Jokic, KAT, embiid, porzingis, and maybe ayton (can't tell if he's worth anything defensively)
Bam and AD (if you're calling them centers)
Posted on 11/29/20 at 2:27 pm to htran90
Porzingas also is not a pure center, he plays alot of minutes at the 4.
Posted on 11/29/20 at 2:36 pm to Bronc
quote:
the only way you come to the conclusion Adams is the superior rebounder, assist man, blocked shot leader, box-out man, or offensive player is to manipulate and cherry pic
You mean by using advanced metrics that show the percentage of available rebounds etc that are available are grabbed by the stated player?
quote:
Towns secured more rebounds for his team from boxing out
Have you ever watched a minute of OKC basketball? Adams is always boxing out for his teammates to grab rebounds. Why you think Westbrooks rebounds went down this past season?
quote:
That’s with me giving Adams an additional rebound for every successful box out and adjusting per 36 to smooth out the minutes discrepancy, which alone makes it difficult to call someone top 5 who can’t play 34 minutes a night due to matchups but his peers can.
KAT is pretty much matchup proof because, well let's face it, he cannot guard anyone ever. He's pretty much trash on the defensive end of the floor.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 11:33 am to Epic Cajun
quote:Yes, I think it is an overpay for Adams in both assets and salary. I like Adams the player. I do not like what we have to pay in salary and assets to get him. So, since someone does not agree with your take, they are a "dimwit?" Too damn bad.
I’m mot manipulating anything the fact is, we sent out Jrue, 2 second round picks, and bench fodder and got back Adams, Bledsoe, 2 unprotected firsts, and 2 pick swaps. If you think that is an “overpay for Adams” you’re a dimwit.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 11:39 am to Soggymoss
quote:Why in the hell does that matter? So a PG that plays some SG is not a "true" PG? That is something you simply created in order to say he is "top 5." 10 years ago, his style of play would have easily been top 5 or higher, but saying that is what a "pure center" is is somewhat disingenuous.
No, I very clearly stated what a pure center is.
Not guys that play the center sometimes, guys that are pure centers and play nowhere else on the court.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 11:42 am to NOSHAU
So, trading Jrue, 2 seconds, and bench fodder for Adams, Bledsoe, 2 unprotected firsts, and 2 pick swaps is an overpay for Adams.
You are unhappy with return in the Jrue trade?
Or, are you just nitpicking a certain part of the trade?
At this point, I think people are just complaining to complain
You are unhappy with return in the Jrue trade?
Or, are you just nitpicking a certain part of the trade?
At this point, I think people are just complaining to complain
Posted on 11/30/20 at 11:55 am to Epic Cajun
quote:I think you are ignoring the cost of acquiring Adams. The cost of acquiring Adams was Hill, a 1st, 2 2nds, bench players, along with losing the ability to use the MLE and BAE and paying him 3 years/$65 million. That is an overpay to me. Some thought the Thunder may have to even attach a pick, or trade him for a protected 2nd to shed his nearly $30 million contract. Again, I like Adams the player. I just do not like the combined cost to get him.
So, trading Jrue, 2 seconds, and bench fodder for Adams, Bledsoe, 2 unprotected firsts, and 2 pick swaps is an overpay for Adams.
You are unhappy with return in the Jrue trade?
Or, are you just nitpicking a certain part of the trade?
At this point, I think people are just complaining to complain
Posted on 11/30/20 at 12:18 pm to NOSHAU
First off you are acting like Cheatham, Kenrich, and Gray were B- to B+ bench players. That's maybe 5-10 min a game, really 0 min with our new squad and none of those guys have any impact on our success.
We traded 3 draft picks on draft night. We received Denver's future 1st, and 2 future 2nd rd picks. That's what the cost was for Adams. We pretty much just drafted Adams instead of 3 late rd trash scrubs that we don't have time to develop.
Hill is a wash. Period. There is 0 reasons to have Hill, JJ, and Lonzo along with NAW and Hart needing minutes. If Hill stayed then Lonzo or someone else is probably on the move. Regardless someone is gone and we still would have people bitching so that's just inevitable.
A combination of Hill and the 3 (end of bench players) not "rotation players" or even "bench players" would get anywhere from 10-25 minutes a game combined. If Adams plays 30-35 minutes will that shut people up? Wtf do y'all consider an overpay when we traded scrubs for someone who will start 30+ min for 3 years effectively???
We traded 3 draft picks on draft night. We received Denver's future 1st, and 2 future 2nd rd picks. That's what the cost was for Adams. We pretty much just drafted Adams instead of 3 late rd trash scrubs that we don't have time to develop.
Hill is a wash. Period. There is 0 reasons to have Hill, JJ, and Lonzo along with NAW and Hart needing minutes. If Hill stayed then Lonzo or someone else is probably on the move. Regardless someone is gone and we still would have people bitching so that's just inevitable.
A combination of Hill and the 3 (end of bench players) not "rotation players" or even "bench players" would get anywhere from 10-25 minutes a game combined. If Adams plays 30-35 minutes will that shut people up? Wtf do y'all consider an overpay when we traded scrubs for someone who will start 30+ min for 3 years effectively???
Posted on 11/30/20 at 12:34 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I think you are ignoring the cost of acquiring Adams. The cost of acquiring Adams was Hill, a 1st, 2 2nds, bench players, along with losing the ability to use the MLE and BAE and paying him 3 years/$65 million. That is an overpay to me. Some thought the Thunder may have to even attach a pick, or trade him for a protected 2nd to shed his nearly $30 million contract. Again, I like Adams the player. I just do not like the combined cost to get him.
It's impossible to know what else we could've received for Hill, a late first, and 2 seconds. It's a hypothetical that can never be proven or disproven. How do you prove that we could've received a rotation player, much less a starter for that "package"?
We made a trade and let our center from last year walk. Our talent is practically unchanged, and we received future assets. On top of that we have more future flexibility (only paying Bledsoe and Adams for the next 3 years, over keeping Jrue and being tied to him for the next 4-5 years).
Posted on 11/30/20 at 12:41 pm to NOSHAU
quote:
I think you are ignoring the cost of acquiring Adams. The cost of acquiring Adams was Hill, a 1st, 2 2nds, bench players, along with losing the ability to use the MLE and BAE and paying him 3 years/$65 million. That is an overpay to me. Some thought the Thunder may have to even attach a pick, or trade him for a protected 2nd to shed his nearly $30 million contract. Again, I like Adams the player. I just do not like the combined cost to get him.
Damn that Asik deal really scarred you.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 6:57 pm to Dantheman504
quote:Show me where I said that. I notice in many of your comments, you make wide spread assumptions. Those players were nothing more than bench players used as salary filler in the trade. Hill is not a wash. He is a player that could bring a future asset or two or could even have potentially gotten us a decent player this year (was rumor of discussions of Hill for Olynyk). I have repeatedly said I like the player, do not like the cost. There is actually the potential that someone can separate the player from the cost. I do not think he is a bad player at all. I think he is very good at what he does and will be fun to watch. I just did not like the cost to acquire him and his salary. That does not mean I will root for him any less.
First off you are acting like Cheatham, Kenrich, and Gray were B- to B+ bench players.
This post was edited on 12/1/20 at 9:12 am
Posted on 11/30/20 at 8:07 pm to NOSHAU
It matters because I have literally said multiple times over and over he is a top 5 PURE CENTER. I'm not sitting here saying he is a top 5 overall big man.
Now if you want to start adding in all these other players that play 4/5, then of course he drops down the line quite a bit.
Now if you want to start adding in all these other players that play 4/5, then of course he drops down the line quite a bit.
Posted on 11/30/20 at 9:56 pm to Soggymoss
I think the big man is not dying in the NBA, but is making a big come back. The GSW dynasty eliminated the big man because their "bigs" were a 6'7 Draymond Green and Kevin Durant who is just a super sized wing. To combat that combined with their elite shooting, teams were less dependent on the big man.
That's over now, even in GS as they just drafted a 7 footer at 2. With the Lakers as the new champions, you need size to beat them. You can't have BI at the 4 and Zion at the 5 going up against a front court of AD/Gasol.
Look at the West in general. Denver has Jokic, Utah has Gobert, for Dallas to be contenders, they need Porzingis to be big for them. Suns are expecting Ayton to take a step up, Portland has Nurkic, Minnesota with KAT. In the East you have Giannis, Embiid, Bam, etc. To stop contending teams you need a big.
So yeah, if you're thinking that the NBA is going completely away from the big man, signing Adams to an extension doesn't really make sense. But if you really look at the NBA, the need for a big man is there. Griffin absolutely loves Adams, so IMO I think the trade is great. Because If Adams plays well this year, he would've costed more on the open market in 2021.
That's over now, even in GS as they just drafted a 7 footer at 2. With the Lakers as the new champions, you need size to beat them. You can't have BI at the 4 and Zion at the 5 going up against a front court of AD/Gasol.
Look at the West in general. Denver has Jokic, Utah has Gobert, for Dallas to be contenders, they need Porzingis to be big for them. Suns are expecting Ayton to take a step up, Portland has Nurkic, Minnesota with KAT. In the East you have Giannis, Embiid, Bam, etc. To stop contending teams you need a big.
So yeah, if you're thinking that the NBA is going completely away from the big man, signing Adams to an extension doesn't really make sense. But if you really look at the NBA, the need for a big man is there. Griffin absolutely loves Adams, so IMO I think the trade is great. Because If Adams plays well this year, he would've costed more on the open market in 2021.
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