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Message
re: 10 teams have shown interest in Jrue
Posted on 10/23/20 at 8:30 am to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 10/23/20 at 8:30 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Why would he be thinking of raising Lonzo's value months before he was even considered for this job (and before Gentry was even fired)?
I assume he's just trying to raise Lonzo's value, b/c in no world can he fill Jrue's role.
1
Posted on 10/23/20 at 8:35 am to NOSHAU
I didn't realize that was months ago. Assumed it was recent, so my bad.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 8:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I assume he's just trying to raise Lonzo's value,
I wasn't quoting Stan, but his diagnosis of Lonzo is that he's not a half court PG. Stan felt you could get away with Zion/Ingram/Jrue running the offense by committee in the half court, but I disagree and feel lead guard is still the biggest need. If you found that lead guard then what do you do with both Lonzo and Jrue? As you've said, you probably should trade one of them and I would think whoever isn't traded is the starting SG.
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 8:39 am
Posted on 10/23/20 at 9:00 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I disagree and feel lead guard is still the biggest need. If you found that lead guard then what do you do with both Lonzo and Jrue? As you've said, you probably should trade one of them and I would think whoever isn't traded is the starting SG.
If you pick up a lead guard, how do you afford to pay Jrue 25+ mil to be your 4th option on offense? It just doesn't make sense to me. Along with the fact that Jrue is your best avenue to acquiring a lead guard. If the choice is between Jrue making 25+ mil to be a 2 guard next to a lead guard, and Lonzo making mid to upper teens for that same role, I would go with Lonzo.
That being said, who knows what kinda deal Lonzo is going to get on the open market.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 9:16 am to TigerinATL
Lead guard is without a doubt our biggest need.
I also feel you could get away with Lonzo as the SG. That's his role in the NBA anyway, but his defense has to get better.
As i said, the bigger issue is do you want to pay Lonzo or Jrue? I don't want to pay Lonzo. He is not worth more than MLE money. He should be playing backup minutes anyway, and i'd rather give those minutes to NAW than him. Lonzo should not be playing 30+ minutes. He's not good enough.
I have no problem paying Jrue going forward, even as our 4th guy.
I also feel you could get away with Lonzo as the SG. That's his role in the NBA anyway, but his defense has to get better.
As i said, the bigger issue is do you want to pay Lonzo or Jrue? I don't want to pay Lonzo. He is not worth more than MLE money. He should be playing backup minutes anyway, and i'd rather give those minutes to NAW than him. Lonzo should not be playing 30+ minutes. He's not good enough.
I have no problem paying Jrue going forward, even as our 4th guy.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 9:22 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
If you pick up a lead guard, how do you afford to pay Jrue 25+ mil to be your 4th option on offense? It just doesn't make sense to me. Along with the fact that Jrue is your best avenue to acquiring a lead guard. If the choice is between Jrue making 25+ mil to be a 2 guard next to a lead guard, and Lonzo making mid to upper teens for that same role, I would go with Lonzo.
Best avenue for that lead guard is the draft.
You pay Jrue his money, and you're paying your PG and your PF rookie money.
We could send Lonzo to Phoenix for Rubio and '21 first and that would give Phoenix over $20M in cap space this offseason, and allow us to draft and develop a PG while playing Rubio.
There is no way i'd rather Lonzo making upper teens over Jrue making 25mil. Jrue is without a doubt much much better than Lonzo, especially when he's the third option at best. For it to be a decision, Lonzo would need to be around $10M/yr for me to consider him over Jrue.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 10:00 am to TigerinATL
quote:
As you've said, you probably should trade one of them and I would think whoever isn't traded is the starting SG.
It probably won't happen, but I personally think unless Lonzo signals he is willing to negotiate a reasonable deal, then trading both would be the best course of action. Play BI as your 2, acquire a 1 in the draft and a true wing in the Jrue/Zo trades or vice versa, then sign a stretchy 5 with the MLE to bridge to Hayes.
1 - Maxey/Terry/Kira/Hampton/Anthony
2 - BI
3 - WING via trade or draft (Avdija/Williams/Vassell)
4 - Zion
5 - Baynes (MLE)
For Example:
To Pels: Otto Porter and #4 (Hayes/Avdija)
To Chi: Oladipo and IND '21 1st lotto protected
TO Ind: Jrue Holiday (signs extension) and 3 2nds
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 10:16 am
Posted on 10/23/20 at 10:18 am to NOFOX
That's what i hope for as well NOFOX.
draft Maxey at #13.
Trade Jrue to Phoenix for Rubio/Bridges/1-2 firsts
Trade Lonzo to NYK for #8. Draft Vassell.
Sign Gallinari to a full 4 year MLE. I've seen some rumors that's what his value likely is if you want to give him long term money.
Rubio/Maxey/NAW
BI/Hart/Redick
Bridges/Vassell
Zion/Melli
Hayes/BiAnnual 5
Gallinari can fit pretty much anywhere at the 3, 4, or 5 with Zion.
draft Maxey at #13.
Trade Jrue to Phoenix for Rubio/Bridges/1-2 firsts
Trade Lonzo to NYK for #8. Draft Vassell.
Sign Gallinari to a full 4 year MLE. I've seen some rumors that's what his value likely is if you want to give him long term money.
Rubio/Maxey/NAW
BI/Hart/Redick
Bridges/Vassell
Zion/Melli
Hayes/BiAnnual 5
Gallinari can fit pretty much anywhere at the 3, 4, or 5 with Zion.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 10:23 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Best avenue for that lead guard is the draft.
IMO, that is the second best avenue to find a lead guard. Mainly because that player won't contribute for a couple years at minimum. I do still want to use the 13th pick on a guard though.
quote:
There is no way i'd rather Lonzo making upper teens over Jrue making 25mil. Jrue is without a doubt much much better than Lonzo, especially when he's the third option at best. For it to be a decision, Lonzo would need to be around $10M/yr for me to consider him over Jrue.
I guess, I'm looking for a "better" player than Rubio as the lead guard. Ideally, IMO, the lead guard is the third banana to Ingram and Zion, with the other two players in the starting 5 being role players. I like Lonzo better in the role player role than Jrue, going forward. Lonzo is still young and has been improving.
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 10:38 am
Posted on 10/23/20 at 10:38 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
I'm looking for a "better" player than Rubio as the lead guard.
We aren't winning anything important the next 2 years. He's fine while we wait for our rookies to mature.
quote:
I think Lonzo better in the role player role than Jrue, going forward.
I think Hart is, which is why we don't really need to keep Lonzo or Jrue if we are getting a big upgrade at the 1. Hart would be just fine starting at the 2.
quote:
Lonzo is still young and has been improving.
Lonzo also has a ceiling that is just a role player. You know what you have with him. He's not making any huge improvements and becoming a sure fire starter for any team in the league.
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 10:40 am
Posted on 10/23/20 at 11:08 am to eyeran
quote:I know its off the topic of this thread, but I cant help it. Listening to Russillo's latest pod and he implies that maybe we hired SVG because he was cheaper than hiring JVG.
Almost every national report or conversation about the Pelicans comes with this hint of the idea that we're doing everything on the cheap. Its just an easy go-to for national guys that have no idea what's actually going on here.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 11:13 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Lonzo also has a ceiling that is just a role player. You know what you have with him. He's not making any huge improvements and becoming a sure fire starter for any team in the league.
He’s played the game equivalent of two NBA seasons with a year over year TS% improvement every year
I wonder how one makes such a confident, ridiculous assertion but you’re generally clueless so I’m not surprised
Posted on 10/23/20 at 11:21 am to eyeran
quote:
maybe we hired SVG because he was cheaper than hiring JVG.
Or maybe Stan is the better coach (and broadcaster)
Posted on 10/23/20 at 11:34 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Lonzo also has a ceiling that is just a role player. You know what you have with him. He's not making any huge improvements and becoming a sure fire starter for any team in the league.
This is a stupid thing to say about a 22 year old player
We heard the same shite last offseason "Lonzo can't shoot, he isn't a shooter, he isn't going to become a better shooter", etc...
ETA: though I do agree that Hart is a solid choice at the 2 as well. Even more reason not to pay Jrue if we get a lead guard
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 11:38 am
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:01 pm to Epic Cajun
I want Hart to stay coming off the bench in a 25-29 minute elite 6th man role.
That's where his career will be. He would be an average/slightly above average starter, but a great 6th man.
That's where his career will be. He would be an average/slightly above average starter, but a great 6th man.
This post was edited on 10/23/20 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:04 pm to TeddyPadillac
Maxey is not a PG
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We aren't winning anything important the next 2 years.
While that's true, not only do you not get production from a rookie immediately, the draft is a crapshoot (especially late lottery), so you may never get production from the pick.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:40 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
We heard the same shite last offseason "Lonzo can't shoot, he isn't a shooter, he isn't going to become a better shooter", etc...
It’s funny bc teddy Cadillac said this before the season
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:43 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
This is a stupid thing to say about a 22 year old player
Maybe. It's my opinion. I have no problems admitting when i'm wrong. I am more than aware that my opinions aren't always right, but they are still my opinions. He's been in the league for 3 years. By that point, you have a good idea of what kind of player that person can become with improvements that are reasonable based on their play and skill set.
quote:
We heard the same shite last offseason "Lonzo can't shoot, he isn't a shooter, he isn't going to become a better shooter", etc...
You know what i said in the offseason? He can improve his 3 point shooting, but one thing i thought he needed to improve on the most was finishing at the rim. If i had to pick which one i'd rather he be better at, it would have been finishing at the rim.
But i'm generally clueless.
I've acknowledged his improvements every step of the way, and as i said before, i don't mind him as our SG b/c i like his transition game off defensive rebounds, but i'd simply rather send him out and give someone else a chance that will have a higher ceiling b/c you should have a good idea on where his is by now.
Explain to me how he gets better at finishing at the rim? He's already bigger than just about everyone who guards him, which has been the case his entire life, and he has no idea how to use that advantage. His 3 point shooting still won't be respected enough to create space b/c no one fears him if they run him off the 3 point line. Teams didnt' really respect Etwaun's three point game and he's a much better shooter, and has a great floater in the lane, and that's about the max of what Lonzo can become on offense in the half court. Yes he has better vision, but he's also a turnover machine who can't make a free throw to save his life.
Posted on 10/23/20 at 12:53 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Explain to me how he gets better at finishing at the rim? He's already bigger than just about everyone who guards him, which has been the case his entire life, and he has no idea how to use that advantage. His 3 point shooting still won't be respected enough to create space b/c no one fears him if they run him off the 3 point line. Teams didnt' really respect Etwaun's three point game and he's a much better shooter, and has a great floater in the lane, and that's about the max of what Lonzo can become on offense in the half court. Yes he has better vision, but he's also a turnover machine who can't make a free throw to save his life.
A player doesn't have to be great at every skill in order to be a good player. If his role on offense is as a transition facilitator and a spot up shooter in half court, then his finishing isn't a huge problem (obviously still a skill that he needs to work on though). Teams will have to respect him if he keeps up the volume and percentages from 3.
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