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1
Posted on 10/22/20 at 10:51 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
That will kind of require being sellers at the deadline...
Haha, very true. I meant it more as wondering if Griffin uses these unique circumstances to chose to wait it out when normally you would make this kind of trade in the offseason.
Obviously it will depend more on Jrue’s interest in an extension rather than the team’s playoff aspirations. I think Griffin would rather extend Jrue than trade him. That might mean needing to show Jrue that the Pels can win games with SVG now at the helm, so it would make sense for Griffin to wait till the deadline. If we are in the 5/6 seed range, your extension pitch to Jrue is much easier. If we are in the 9/10 range and in a dog fight for the 8 seed, I think Griffin pulls the trigger on a trade and punts to next year.
I’m not saying I agree with waiting, personally I wouldn’t risk it and just move on during the offseason as others have suggested. My only point is I think there is actually a lot of merit to thinking it would be better to wait till the deadline this year.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 10:54 am
Posted on 10/22/20 at 11:05 am to Soggymoss
Let me get this straight. Months ago I got bitched at for saying we should use future picks for players because we have a shite ton. Now someone is arguing against me saying we should trade future picks for players? And to make things better you don't even want to attach that future pick with a player that's worth a damn? You want to use it with Miller to get.... D rose? Hahaha
Posted on 10/22/20 at 11:09 am to Dantheman504
quote:
along the lines
Doesn't mean that would be the trade, just an EXAMPLE. Stop taking everything so literally.
And everyone around here should know that we have accumulated all these picks and assets with the sole purpose of trading them for pieces to fit with Zion and BI. There's no way we will be able to add 10 rookies to this team over the next 5 years
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 11:11 am
Posted on 10/22/20 at 11:29 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Even if it’s an older stop gap like Rubio
I’ve been following the NBA for too long.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 11:33 am to Soggymoss
Hopefully everyone can agree on this now. I know people definitely didn't a few months ago.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:00 pm to Dantheman504
When you don't make the playoffs, people always look to rebuild. Thats just human nature.
Our window isn't now, its 2-3 years away, just not many have the patience to wait for it.
Our window isn't now, its 2-3 years away, just not many have the patience to wait for it.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:24 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Are we acting like Westbrook and PG weren't going to be traded??
You expected PG to be traded to the Clippers? It's not about players being expected to be traded, it's the location of the trade.
quote:Those are just teams that I could see looking to make moves this offseason. The fact that you think that the Pels are down to only 4 teams that they could possibly trade with is idiotic. At least 10 teams reached out to them per the report, so where are these other 6 teams?
Its not a good comparison. The pelicans don't have locker room issues either. We aren't freaking out to trade Jrue. We are going to look at what is offered and decide if the team is better off with him still on it. Dallas doesn't have the assets and we would be fricking stupid to pair him with Doncic in our division. Ditto with lillard, plus I'm not sure him and CJ want to split it up yet. Utah doesn't have the assets of the 4 teams I mentioned and Miami has 0 reasons to split up.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:27 pm to Soggymoss
I prefer to keep Jrue, but if we can get a king's random we have to take it.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:30 pm to Epic Cajun
I'm willing to bet Minnesota and Atlanta are 2 that reached out also.
They both are in desperate need of a player like Jrue.
They both are in desperate need of a player like Jrue.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:35 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
I'm willing to bet Minnesota and Atlanta are 2 that reached out also.
They both are in desperate need of a player like Jrue.
I could see that, my only point is that the trade doesn't have to be to one of the 4 listed teams. Trades aren't typically predictable, and rarely go as expected.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 12:36 pm to Soggymoss
I think it also has to do with us not having many draft picks or having bad draft picks the last several years.
Some people are over valuing our future 1sts/ draft position and I guess don't think we will do well or would rather us have more mediocre seasons to jump 5 spots in a draft.
Its almost like some people don't think we can be successful unless we draft the perfect rookie to help Zion/ BI win. Its a weird backwards thought process. Zion and BI are already our future stars. Any rookie can be a hit or miss. If we already have our 2 guys wouldn't it make more sense to build a solid veteran/ young vet squad around them and fill in the roster spots with best fit or highest ceiling picks?
I just don't see the same hype of our future picks > using some of those picks to get sure shot up and coming players to pair with BI/ Zion.
Some people are over valuing our future 1sts/ draft position and I guess don't think we will do well or would rather us have more mediocre seasons to jump 5 spots in a draft.
Its almost like some people don't think we can be successful unless we draft the perfect rookie to help Zion/ BI win. Its a weird backwards thought process. Zion and BI are already our future stars. Any rookie can be a hit or miss. If we already have our 2 guys wouldn't it make more sense to build a solid veteran/ young vet squad around them and fill in the roster spots with best fit or highest ceiling picks?
I just don't see the same hype of our future picks > using some of those picks to get sure shot up and coming players to pair with BI/ Zion.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 1:04 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
I prefer to keep Jrue, but if we can get a king's random we have to take it.
My thought process has been pretty straight forward:
When do I think the Pelicans will realistically have their core players developed enough to compete for a championship?
Barring a freak FA signing, or a monster trade that would almost certainly include Jrue, the window seems to be 2-4 seasons away at a minimum.
Now, do I envision a 33-35-year-old Jrue being an integral part of that squad to the point we will pay him his last big payday that will probably be as big or bigger than the contract he is currently on?
If your answer is yes then maybe you keep him, but I don't see it. So in my mind, you are building for 3-5 years from now and the wisest play is to move guys for guys that better fit that timeline. And if one of those guys that isn't on that timeline is garnering a ten-team bidding war, you absolutely cash that in.
That doesn't mean you give up on mixing your roster in with veterans, but it does probably mean you want your 30+ veterans to not take up so much cap space so that room can be occupied by core players in the future, or be easily moved.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 10/22/20 at 1:06 pm to Epic Cajun
Was Paul George going to stay in OKC? You act like they weren't looking to move him or Westbrook already. Also it couldn't have been a better situation for OKC because Kahwi wanted PG and that was the Clippers easiest ticket in. None of the teams you mentioned have a situation like that. Once again they are all stable organizations who play well with each other and are doing well.
I never said we won't talk to other teams or other teams wouldn't be interested. I was just saying no other teams have better packages to offer than those 5. Yes there are a few other teams with assets to do it. Once again I can't see any of those teams (TOR, MIA, DAL) splitting up what they have built to do it. They are all still building. They aren't in the same contender mode as other teams.
I never said we won't talk to other teams or other teams wouldn't be interested. I was just saying no other teams have better packages to offer than those 5. Yes there are a few other teams with assets to do it. Once again I can't see any of those teams (TOR, MIA, DAL) splitting up what they have built to do it. They are all still building. They aren't in the same contender mode as other teams.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 1:22 pm to Dantheman504
If the cycle of fan trade speculation and reality has taught us anything, it should be to expect the unexpected.
Be it players or assets you didn't think a deal would fetch or include, or some team that no one saw as a realistic partner coming in with some offer you didn't expect them to offer, or an executive placing a different value or having a vision you didn't see going after different assets than you expected.
Be it players or assets you didn't think a deal would fetch or include, or some team that no one saw as a realistic partner coming in with some offer you didn't expect them to offer, or an executive placing a different value or having a vision you didn't see going after different assets than you expected.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 1:24 pm to Dantheman504
quote:You're missing the forest for the trees. My only point is that you can't say that it's just down to the 4 "favorites" to land Jrue (if a trade even occurs). Trades are typically unpredictable, those teams that I mentioned were just examples of teams that may want to make moves this offseason (you might notice I even included an "etc" in there).
Was Paul George going to stay in OKC? You act like they weren't looking to move him or Westbrook already. Also it couldn't have been a better situation for OKC because Kahwi wanted PG and that was the Clippers easiest ticket in. None of the teams you mentioned have a situation like that. Once again they are all stable organizations who play well with each other and are doing well.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 1:25 pm to Bronc
quote:
If the cycle of fan trade speculation and reality has taught us anything, it should be to expect the unexpected.
Be it players or assets you didn't think a deal would fetch or include, or some team that no one saw as a realistic partner coming in with some offer you didn't expect them to offer, or an executive placing a different value or having a vision you didn't see going after different assets than you expected.
Posted on 10/22/20 at 6:17 pm to Bronc
quote:
When do I think the Pelicans will realistically have their core players developed enough to compete for a championship?
when they get a stud point guard with some balls.
neither holiday nor lonzo is a point guard
you do whatever you have to do now to get that guy, no stone unturned. Your untouchables are zion, hart and ingram. Everything and everyone else should be on the table.
only lebron can facilitate from the frontcourt. If you do not have lebron you need an elite point guard with ice in his veins. It is paramount that they identify the guy and that they get him.
holiday is an elite role player. Lonzo is a less elite role player. Pick one and package the other one
Posted on 10/22/20 at 6:38 pm to cgrand
quote:
when they get a stud point guard with some balls.
neither holiday nor lonzo is a point guard
you do whatever you have to do now to get that guy, no stone unturned. Your untouchables are zion, hart and ingram. Everything and everyone else should be on the table.
only lebron can facilitate from the frontcourt. If you do not have lebron you need an elite point guard with ice in his veins. It is paramount that they identify the guy and that they get him.
holiday is an elite role player. Lonzo is a less elite role player. Pick one and package the other one
Glad we’re getting more folks onto this train of thought, the missing piece to this team is an elite ball handler. IMO, the best way to acquire that piece is through a Jrue trade...
Second best way to acquire that piece is via the draft.
This post was edited on 10/22/20 at 6:39 pm
Posted on 10/23/20 at 8:00 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Thinking about Stan’s breakdown of the team on the Lowe Post it feels like Lonzo fits Jrue’s role.
I assume he's just trying to raise Lonzo's value, b/c in no world can he fill Jrue's role. He is no where near the defender. Lonzo was supposed to be an elite defender, and he's probably the 3rd or 4th best wing defender on the team. And he's not a scorer in any sense of the word. Jrue may fumble the ball around every other game, but he can take over games with the ball in his hands and he does so several times every year. Lonzo isn't capable of that, and never will be.
I can definitely see a role for Lonzo on our team though, without Jrue on it. If he can hit open set shot threes consistently, rebound defensively and push the pace, then he's a good player, but his defense has to get much better. But even if you see him in that role, what are you going to pay him after next year? If Lonzo wasn't in his last year of his rookie contract, I'd say keep him without a doubt. Being that it's his last year and you have to decide if you want to keep him or not, that's why i push to trade him now and get something back. I'd rather the risk of seeing what a top 10 pick might turn into as opposed to seeing what Lonzo can improve on with his next contract.
quote:
Even if it’s an older stop gap like Rubio and you draft your long term lead guard this year.
I mentioned that before, a trade with Phoenix. I think Phoenix would be interested in Lonzo or Jrue. I think Lonzo fits the role i described above well with Booker. Lonzo pushes the pace off rebounds, and in the half court lets Booker do his thing while he knocks down open 3's. I think you could get Rubio and their first for Lonzo.
I think you could get Rubio, their 1st, and Bridges for Jrue. Bridges is a guy that is poised to blow up the next two years. He's a plus defender, and i think he'll start creeping up near 40% from 3 in the next year or two.
You look at what Phoenix did this year in the bubble, and what Booker is becoming, i think they would be a pretty stout team with Booker/Jrue/Oubre/CamJohnson/Ayton.
That's definitely a team with some nice defenders and 3 point shooting to surround Booker. And Jrue gets to reunite with Monty. Hell i'd be a Suns fan when they aren't playing the Pels. Suns would have about $90M in salaries after that trade. They'd also have near max money available for the next year, but they'd have to decide if they want to keep Jrue or Oubre going forward.
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