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re: Let's have a civil discussion about AI music
Posted on 10/3/26 at 7:15 pm to hogcard1964
Posted on 10/3/26 at 7:15 pm to hogcard1964
quote:
Can you please post the lyrics of the song you wrote about the sea serpent?
I never said I wrote any of the lyrics to either of the two songs about the San Francisco sea serpent.
I gave certain key words I wanted included in the song such as sea serpent, padded underbelly, 60 feet long, hexagonal scales on the midsection, green midsection and San Francisco Bay,
This post was edited on 10/3/26 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 10/3/26 at 7:27 pm to Bowstring1
quote:
Absolutely! Reproduced is the key word, reproduced from the work of a human hand and mind
No work by a human hand was done on the actual print itself so would you say the actual print was made by the person who made the original drawing or painting?
Similarly, would you say a photograph taken using a smart phone and the photographs reproduced from the photo by a commercial printing company are made by the photographer?
Posted on 10/3/26 at 8:11 pm to Dawglovertoo
I am not sure that I totally understand the point you’re trying to make. In regard to the print, I see that as a reproduction of the beauty of the work and expression a human mind and hand. It is the same way that I see a recording of a musician playing and singing music that he or she are they composed. As far as photography I don’t see that as comparing apples to apples. Although I love photography, it is simply capturing God‘s artistry.
Posted on 10/3/26 at 10:01 pm to Bowstring1
You posted, "In regard to the print, I see that as a reproduction of the beauty of the work and expression a human mind and hand."
According to AI haters a person who uses their mind to instruct AI of the words they want included in the song and exactly how they want the song to sound like cannot say they made the song.
The person who makes the original drawing or painting has no physical involvement in the making of the actual print. A commercial printing company makes the actual print. Therefore, according to the AI haters the person who made the original drawing or painting cannot say they made the print even though it contains the image of the original drawing or painting.
You posted, "As far as photography I don’t see that as comparing apples to apples. Although I love photography, it is simply capturing God‘s artistry."
It appears you are saying even though the photographer uses their mind to determine what they want to photograph and the angle they want to photograph the object they are photographing they cannot say they made the photograph because they have no physical involvement in the making of the photograph just like AI haters say the person who came up with the idea of what the song should sound like or the key words the song should contain cannot say they made the song because they had no physical involvement in the creation of the final AI version of the song.
According to AI haters a person who uses their mind to instruct AI of the words they want included in the song and exactly how they want the song to sound like cannot say they made the song.
The person who makes the original drawing or painting has no physical involvement in the making of the actual print. A commercial printing company makes the actual print. Therefore, according to the AI haters the person who made the original drawing or painting cannot say they made the print even though it contains the image of the original drawing or painting.
You posted, "As far as photography I don’t see that as comparing apples to apples. Although I love photography, it is simply capturing God‘s artistry."
It appears you are saying even though the photographer uses their mind to determine what they want to photograph and the angle they want to photograph the object they are photographing they cannot say they made the photograph because they have no physical involvement in the making of the photograph just like AI haters say the person who came up with the idea of what the song should sound like or the key words the song should contain cannot say they made the song because they had no physical involvement in the creation of the final AI version of the song.
Posted on 10/3/26 at 10:38 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
According to AI haters a person who uses their mind to instruct AI of the words they want included in the song and exactly how they want the song to sound like cannot say they made the song.
That's not being a hater, that is understanding how generative AI does what generative AI does. I cannot ask a chef to make a particular dish, let them know I what general ingredients I'd like added then claim I MADE the dish. I merely gave the chef the prompts.
I stand by my thesis from page 2. You don't know what AI does or how it works, you don't know how music works and I question your assertion that you know "good music" from "bad music". Like most, you simply know what YOU like. That's subjective, not objective.
It is clear that you really didn't want a civil discussion of AI when you made this thread. You wanted people to pat you on the back and validate your opinion, as uninformed as that is.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:22 am to johnqpublic
In the past many famous artists had underlings do the actual painting with the famous artist instructing them how the famous artist wanted the painting to look. The famous artist was still given credit for making the painting.
There is no difference between that and what someone does when they are using AI to help them make a song. They instruct AI what they want the song to say and how the song should sound.
After all, AI would never be able to create the song by itself. AI needs the help of a human to instruct it how the song should sound and what words should be in the song.
For you to say I don't know how music works is absurd. Good music is like porn. I may not be able to define good music but I know it when I hear it.
As far as me not wanting to have a civil discussion of AI, you can't say I haven't been civil with everyone who posted in this thread their disagreement with me about AI music including you.
There is no difference between that and what someone does when they are using AI to help them make a song. They instruct AI what they want the song to say and how the song should sound.
After all, AI would never be able to create the song by itself. AI needs the help of a human to instruct it how the song should sound and what words should be in the song.
For you to say I don't know how music works is absurd. Good music is like porn. I may not be able to define good music but I know it when I hear it.
As far as me not wanting to have a civil discussion of AI, you can't say I haven't been civil with everyone who posted in this thread their disagreement with me about AI music including you.
This post was edited on 10/4/26 at 11:16 am
Posted on 10/4/26 at 3:52 pm to Dawglovertoo
According to Google, "Andy Warhol frequently had his assistants and studio members at [The Factory] execute the actual physical production of his artworks while he directed, conceptualized, or oversaw the process."
Warhol was still credited with making the painting.
Warhol was still credited with making the painting.
This post was edited on 10/4/26 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 10/4/26 at 3:53 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:Hey due,
Dawglovertoo
(troll, madame, salesman, bot or whatever it is you claim to be, because I'm still not certain)
You may have two legs, you may two eyes and ears, you may even have performed all of your claimed to actions. It doesn't matter because we have a well document series of your suggested YouTube videos. A rather substantial amount that may even number into the hundreds. So many that you had to asked to put them together into one thread. And the over whelming number have been down voted precisely because you have a bad ear.
You alone have illustrated your lack of musical acumen and general bad taste as to what is good. And throughout this I've been civil... despite your failure to act in kind.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 4:31 pm to awestruck
I have such a bad ear and such bad taste in music that I wasted my time seeing these terrible musicians and singers in person at concerts.
James Brown
Sly Stone
Jimi Hendrix
Janis Joplin
Jim Morrison
Ron McKernan (Pigpen)
Allen Wilson.
Brian Wilson
Dennis Wilson
Carl Wilson
Sonny Bono
Cher Bono
Jerry Garcia
Joey Ramone
Johnny Ramone
Eddie Money
Joe Cocker
Melanie Safka
Rick Wright
Garth Hudson
Bob Weir
Richie Haven
Marty Balin
Paul Kantner
Keith Moon
Country Joe McDonald
Paul Butterfield
Johnny Winter
Tim Hardin
Alan (Blind Owl) Wilson
Bob (The Bear) Hite
Henry Vestine
Larry Taylor
Sid Barrett
Richard Wright
Delaney Bramlett
Bonnie Bramlett
Randy California
Ed Cassidy
Dave Brubeck
B.B. King
Ian Tyson
Gregg Allman
Duane Allman
Dickey Betts
Butch Trucks
Berry Oakley
Papa John Creach
Alvin Lee
Anthony Barnes
Dick Halligan
Larry Willis
Greg Herbert
David LaFlamme
Linda LaFlamme
Pattie Santos
John Entwistle
Tommy DeVito
Nick Massi
John Bonham
Frankie Valli
Bob Gaudio
When I first began posting here I only posted a couple of songs that I thought people here might enjoy listening to that they may not have heard before. Right away I was chastised for doing that so I decided to start a thread in which I posted all of the songs I thought people here might enjoy listening to that they may not have heard before. I doubt they numbered into the hundreds but if it bothers you so much you can count how many I posted and let me know the actual number.
It doesn't matter to me how many people down voted the songs I posted because I'm certain most of the people who gave me a down vote didn't even bother to listen to the songs before they down voted them just like it doesn't matter to me what your opinion is of the songs I posted because you probably didn't bother to listen to any of them either.
As far as me being uncivil to you, post one example when I was uncivil to you before you were uncivil to me.
I'm waiting...
James Brown
Sly Stone
Jimi Hendrix
Janis Joplin
Jim Morrison
Ron McKernan (Pigpen)
Allen Wilson.
Brian Wilson
Dennis Wilson
Carl Wilson
Sonny Bono
Cher Bono
Jerry Garcia
Joey Ramone
Johnny Ramone
Eddie Money
Joe Cocker
Melanie Safka
Rick Wright
Garth Hudson
Bob Weir
Richie Haven
Marty Balin
Paul Kantner
Keith Moon
Country Joe McDonald
Paul Butterfield
Johnny Winter
Tim Hardin
Alan (Blind Owl) Wilson
Bob (The Bear) Hite
Henry Vestine
Larry Taylor
Sid Barrett
Richard Wright
Delaney Bramlett
Bonnie Bramlett
Randy California
Ed Cassidy
Dave Brubeck
B.B. King
Ian Tyson
Gregg Allman
Duane Allman
Dickey Betts
Butch Trucks
Berry Oakley
Papa John Creach
Alvin Lee
Anthony Barnes
Dick Halligan
Larry Willis
Greg Herbert
David LaFlamme
Linda LaFlamme
Pattie Santos
John Entwistle
Tommy DeVito
Nick Massi
John Bonham
Frankie Valli
Bob Gaudio
When I first began posting here I only posted a couple of songs that I thought people here might enjoy listening to that they may not have heard before. Right away I was chastised for doing that so I decided to start a thread in which I posted all of the songs I thought people here might enjoy listening to that they may not have heard before. I doubt they numbered into the hundreds but if it bothers you so much you can count how many I posted and let me know the actual number.
It doesn't matter to me how many people down voted the songs I posted because I'm certain most of the people who gave me a down vote didn't even bother to listen to the songs before they down voted them just like it doesn't matter to me what your opinion is of the songs I posted because you probably didn't bother to listen to any of them either.
As far as me being uncivil to you, post one example when I was uncivil to you before you were uncivil to me.
I'm waiting...
This post was edited on 10/4/26 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 10/4/26 at 8:35 pm to Dawglovertoo
As Auggie can attest, I have a song I wrote with some old band mates many years ago that never went anywhere, but it's a great song (in my opinion). It needs to be out there.
However, when we recorded it as an indie-pop song 15+ years ago, we did it at a couple home studios with Cubase and Protools, with SM58's and SM57's, mid grade amps, with our own mid grade musicians, and it sounds like a mid-grade demo.
I wondered how that song would sound redone as a country-pop song with a female vocal.
I had a friend run it through Suno for me. Suno's first take absolutely knocked it out of the park. Granted, all the lyrics, melodies, harmonies, hooks, chords, solos, etc etc were already done for Suno, but it nailed the production. It flubbed some of the lyrics, but it's a damn fine demo now, that I want to pitch.
I think AI is ok for that purpose.
The problem is that is a slippery slope.
It's like the corporate reports and presentations corporate people now use Copilot to do. Here's the data, make me a 5 slide power point on this corporate template with this data. Done. Professional. Review it, edit, save, present. Takes minutes, instead of tedious power point work. The downside, is many companies have someone in the office who was a real whiz at power point, or other reporting apps, and they'd do them for the whole team. Those people won't have jobs anymore because everyone can do their own administrative busywork in minutes with AI.
The difference with Suno is people can take it a lot farther. You don't even need to enter any real substance and it will make a whole song with a few lines of text. When you use Copilot for repetitive time-consuming office tasks, you still a have to give it very specific details. You can't just ask it "Finish my weekly report to the VP". In Suno, you can do that musically.
Thus the slippery slope.
However, when we recorded it as an indie-pop song 15+ years ago, we did it at a couple home studios with Cubase and Protools, with SM58's and SM57's, mid grade amps, with our own mid grade musicians, and it sounds like a mid-grade demo.
I wondered how that song would sound redone as a country-pop song with a female vocal.
I had a friend run it through Suno for me. Suno's first take absolutely knocked it out of the park. Granted, all the lyrics, melodies, harmonies, hooks, chords, solos, etc etc were already done for Suno, but it nailed the production. It flubbed some of the lyrics, but it's a damn fine demo now, that I want to pitch.
I think AI is ok for that purpose.
The problem is that is a slippery slope.
It's like the corporate reports and presentations corporate people now use Copilot to do. Here's the data, make me a 5 slide power point on this corporate template with this data. Done. Professional. Review it, edit, save, present. Takes minutes, instead of tedious power point work. The downside, is many companies have someone in the office who was a real whiz at power point, or other reporting apps, and they'd do them for the whole team. Those people won't have jobs anymore because everyone can do their own administrative busywork in minutes with AI.
The difference with Suno is people can take it a lot farther. You don't even need to enter any real substance and it will make a whole song with a few lines of text. When you use Copilot for repetitive time-consuming office tasks, you still a have to give it very specific details. You can't just ask it "Finish my weekly report to the VP". In Suno, you can do that musically.
Thus the slippery slope.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 9:28 pm to deeprig9
Can you post the final version of your song here?
I sure would like to listen to it.
As far as the rest of your post, you are more of an expert than me regarding how the music industry may be negatively affected by the use of AI music so I defer to your expertise on the matter.
I sure would like to listen to it.
As far as the rest of your post, you are more of an expert than me regarding how the music industry may be negatively affected by the use of AI music so I defer to your expertise on the matter.
This post was edited on 10/4/26 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 10/4/26 at 9:57 pm to Dawglovertoo
I'm chomping at the bit to share it, but since I intend to get it a publishing contract, I think it would be unwise for me to have it floating out there on the internet.
But, I just realized I have your email address, so I'll send you the link to the original and the Suno version.
But, I just realized I have your email address, so I'll send you the link to the original and the Suno version.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:04 pm to Dawglovertoo
I sent to .........2@gmail
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:08 pm to deeprig9
Thanks. I'll check it out.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:17 pm to deeprig9
That was really good.
I see why you wanted a female voice.
I see why you wanted a female voice.
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:20 pm to Dawglovertoo
Yeah, our singer vs Stevie Nicks with a southern accent, no brainer.
This post was edited on 10/4/26 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 10/4/26 at 10:23 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
That was really good.
And it works so much better as a country pop song than the indie pop song original.
Suno can make that change without me having to pay session guys in Nashville to re-record the original in that other style.
Posted on 10/5/26 at 12:39 am to deeprig9
I already heard the original, send me a link to the suno version.
Posted on 10/5/26 at 9:46 am to deeprig9
I just heard the original version and it is good but the AI version is much better especially because you added the female lead singer. I have only listened to both versions on my tablet so today I will listen to both versions using earphones and also on some big speakers.
That way I will be able to hear the full effect of both versions.
That way I will be able to hear the full effect of both versions.
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