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re: Do you consider rap and hip hop to be music?
Posted on 3/18/24 at 7:30 pm to geauxbrown
Posted on 3/18/24 at 7:30 pm to geauxbrown
geauxbrown, well said, well said.
0
Posted on 3/19/24 at 2:44 am to geauxbrown
This. I own quite a few rap records and have nostalgia for some of the rap music I liked growing up, but I was a child. As I got older I realized I didn’t really like the rap, but Parliament, E,W&F and other earlier music that they stole in the samples.
The problem in this argument is some people say all music is art. That is simply just not the case. There is some rap music that you can consider art, but it’s a much lower percentage, similar to bro country and hair bands.
It’s music, but most of it just isn’t very good.
The problem in this argument is some people say all music is art. That is simply just not the case. There is some rap music that you can consider art, but it’s a much lower percentage, similar to bro country and hair bands.
It’s music, but most of it just isn’t very good.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 8:00 am to SaintlyTiger88
While their songs contain elements of hip hop, Destiny's Child is in no way a rap/hip hop group.
Words have meanings. There is an argument to be made that rap and hip hop connote different sub genres, but not in the way you seem to think.
As to the argument that sampling/rap diluted music, that is a wildly myopic and weird zero-sum argument in regards to art. As a guitar player myself, I wholly reject that argument.
Words have meanings. There is an argument to be made that rap and hip hop connote different sub genres, but not in the way you seem to think.
As to the argument that sampling/rap diluted music, that is a wildly myopic and weird zero-sum argument in regards to art. As a guitar player myself, I wholly reject that argument.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 8:50 am to SaintlyTiger88
quote:
Do you consider rap and hip hop to be music?
Yes, of course it is. Why would it not be? It is music that has its roots in a different cultural tradition than European melody-based music, but that doesn't make it any less of a form of musical expression. To me this is a silly question. I think a much more interesting debate can be had on the topic of: is noise music like Merzbow or Hanatarash actually music?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 8:54 am to SaintlyTiger88
of course it’s music that’s just retarded to say otherwise. Post the full Garcia quote from wherever you found it I’m sure there’s more context.
It’s terrible music but so is a lot of other genres. For example I cannot stand metal and I fail to even slightly appreciate what is attractive about it yet millions of other people love it. All subjective
It’s terrible music but so is a lot of other genres. For example I cannot stand metal and I fail to even slightly appreciate what is attractive about it yet millions of other people love it. All subjective
Posted on 3/19/24 at 8:55 am to cgrand
a much better question would be “is Rush music” 
Posted on 3/19/24 at 9:26 am to geauxbrown
quote:
The day someone could sit down with a drum machine and create beats with their fingers was the day the quality of music began to wane.
What about the plethora of 80s music that is not hip hop that uses drum machines?
Making quality beats isnt easy, especially before there were computer programs to line everything up.
Saying hip hop isnt music is simplistic and ignorant.
Just look at art as an example, are only paintings considered art?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 10:56 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Rap is missing musical elements.
Where is the harmony? Melody? When is there any singing? Certainly no musical instruments, except maybe drums.
Spot on.
"Music" by any centuries-long definition imparts harmonies and melodies of either or both instrumentals and vocal singing (along with rhythm.)
In most cases Rap is merely rhythmic pulsations of aggressive "poetics" embellished with over-amped up bass and percussion.
So, NO. NOT "Music". EVER. It's Noise.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:00 am to rutiger
quote:
Just look at art as an example, are only paintings considered art?
I guess your point is, "art" (or "music") is in the eye/ear of the beholder.
To a degree that may be true. (Even the Ugly and Degraded appear "pleasant" to some.)
The problem: This philosophy turns everything into Relativism and corruptible at some point.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:22 am to wesfau
quote:
Buddy, I don't think you have much of a grasp on the words you're throwing around.
It keeps getting worse every time he posts an opinion.
Black Knights - The Almighty
More interesting musically than pretty much everything you hear on the radio.
Childish Gambino - This is America
Please explain how the above lacks any elements of "music."
Flying Lotus - Never Catch Me (feat. Kendrick Lamar)
Exposing yourself only to the lowest common denominator of rap leaves you with a lowest common denominator opinion.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:25 am to BigOrangeBri
quote:
It’s music, but most of it just isn’t very good.
This holds true for every genre of music. There is probably more really shitty rock and country music than all other genres combined.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:27 am to wesfau
quote:
As a guitar player myself, I wholly reject that argument.
I'd be willing to bet that the people in this thread who actually make music overwhelmingly disagree with the OP.
In fact, OP, which musical instrument do you play?
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:32 am to Liberator
quote:
In most cases Rap is merely rhythmic pulsations of aggressive "poetics" embellished with over-amped up bass and percussion.
This just isnt true and is complete hyperbole.
quote:
So, NO. NOT "Music". EVER. It's Noise.
Theres the ignorance, knew that was coming.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:34 am to Liberator
quote:
I guess your point is, "art" (or "music") is in the eye/ear of the beholder
Nope, not my point at all.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:48 am to SaintlyTiger88
If I take a Nile Rodgers hook, say Le Freak, and, instead of singing over it, I recite ee cummings, you would say it's not music. However, you wouldn't say that if there was no recitation. You would call the song an instrumental, which is music. So, of course it's music.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 11:50 am to rutiger
quote:
Theres the ignorance, knew that was coming.
Not "ignorant" of anything. I've merely critiqued Rap as an alleged genre of "music" as defined by traditional standards -- and it doesn't meet the specs. (with all due respect)
Call it something else.
Here are two other expressions of "music" or art that may either be considered devolving or "evolving" sub-genres /sub-sets of Rap. (They both have"beats" played to cheering admirers.)
Groove Onkels feat. Groove Tante - "Gelber Sack" outdoor!
> and here:
Stomp Live (2009)
This post was edited on 3/19/24 at 11:52 am
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:04 pm to Liberator
quote:
Not "ignorant" of anything.
quote:
Here are two other expressions of "music" or art that may either be considered devolving or "evolving" sub-genres /sub-sets of Rap. (They both have"beats" played to cheering admirers.)
Because all it takes to make rap music is beats? Lol.
You are extremely ignorant, but hey, you do you.
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:14 pm to SaintlyTiger88
quote:
Let me start off by saying I’ve never been much of a fan of rap and hip hop
You don't say
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:18 pm to Red Boarman
quote:
If I take a Nile Rodgers hook, say Le Freak, and, instead of singing over it, I recite ee cummings, you would say it's not music.
That'd be performance art that incorporated music, I suppose.
The problem with your hypo is that you're omitting the part where people with actual musical acumen lay hands on those pieces, and add/remove/augment/stretch/twist/invert it into something new.
edit: I misunderstood your point, I think.
This post was edited on 3/19/24 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 3/19/24 at 12:29 pm to rutiger
quote:
Because all it takes to make rap music is beats? Lol.
No, you're right.
It's beyond Bach, Beethoven and Mozart.
Here's Rap defined: (generously):
"Beats". Rhythmic pulsating bass at various tempos. Blended softer-loud visceral expressions -- mostly focused on primal urges and exhortations. (with an occasional "borrowing" or Sampling of actual Music -- the best of "Rap".)
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