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Message
re: Wonder Woman Movie ***SPOILERS*** Thread
Posted on 6/5/17 at 5:46 pm to BigAppleTiger
Posted on 6/5/17 at 5:46 pm to BigAppleTiger
Went to a second viewing last night with some friends also (their first viewing). I still came away just as satisfied as the first time. It was better on second viewing. I agree with both posters who have seen it multiple times on the majority of the film. The few minor complaints I had the first time are still there so I'll touch on those too...
Definitely a TL;DR but here goes lol:
The film didn't bog down on second viewing. Usually when you go see something again you are just there to kind of clear up a few questions/plot points, maybe solidify your opinion, or just get to the "fun parts". I had none of these as I looked forward to each scene.
Like I said earlier in the thread. The Themyscira scenes were awesome and I wanted more. Second viewing seemed like they were only there for a short time.
I love Gal's performance more and more each time, and not just the major scenes... One of the guys I went with has had problems with her since BvS but I believe I convinced him that she's perfect for the role. I loved every little nuance of her performance. The boat scene with her and Pine, the entire first London sequence. Heck even her trying ice cream for the first time. Every little scene like that she had a charm and curiosity about herself that fit perfectly. His complaint was that they weren't consistent with her personality, ex: ditzy and awkward one minute then be leader alpha the next.. The only time I thought that happened was during the war scenes/convos, which that is the only thing she KNOWS so that totally makes sense. Other than that it was played perfectly. Like another poster said, "stranger in a strange place".
I really liked Pine's mission team. Each had their own personality and "moment" to shine in the movie. Although Charlie should've have made the team photo, he didnt do shite
The score again is FANTASTIC.
No Man's Land scene is incredible. You get the full range of emotion from WW in that sequence. From continuously asking why they can't help multiple people to just her deciding it's time to shine.
A few quick complaints:
Some of the CGI could've been touched up, but overall it was fine. Nothing that just took me out of the movie.
Some of it felt rushed to me, mainly leaving Themyscira and everything after the Gala/Act 3. Was hoping for a little more ceremonial feel with Diana getting the lasso, sword, shield, etc but it kinda felt like "we gotta hurry to London so let's just grab and go". Maybe a 2 minute scene of getting all the stuff would've been cool.
Seems like after the Gala scene everything was a little rushed. I also wish we could've gotten a little more of Ares/Sir Patrick before the big reveal. Maybe could've added him in to more scenes and him maybe being "all in" on their mission then have the reveal. Instead he's in 3 scenes (conference, bar, phone call).
Overall I can't say enough about how good this movie was. Just a few minor things kept it from being great to being really good, which is okay. Still one of my favorite origin movies and by far the best thing in the DCEU. Interested to see what the sequel will be based around. A lot of questions still to be answered.
Definitely a TL;DR but here goes lol:
The film didn't bog down on second viewing. Usually when you go see something again you are just there to kind of clear up a few questions/plot points, maybe solidify your opinion, or just get to the "fun parts". I had none of these as I looked forward to each scene.
Like I said earlier in the thread. The Themyscira scenes were awesome and I wanted more. Second viewing seemed like they were only there for a short time.
I love Gal's performance more and more each time, and not just the major scenes... One of the guys I went with has had problems with her since BvS but I believe I convinced him that she's perfect for the role. I loved every little nuance of her performance. The boat scene with her and Pine, the entire first London sequence. Heck even her trying ice cream for the first time. Every little scene like that she had a charm and curiosity about herself that fit perfectly. His complaint was that they weren't consistent with her personality, ex: ditzy and awkward one minute then be leader alpha the next.. The only time I thought that happened was during the war scenes/convos, which that is the only thing she KNOWS so that totally makes sense. Other than that it was played perfectly. Like another poster said, "stranger in a strange place".
I really liked Pine's mission team. Each had their own personality and "moment" to shine in the movie. Although Charlie should've have made the team photo, he didnt do shite
The score again is FANTASTIC.
No Man's Land scene is incredible. You get the full range of emotion from WW in that sequence. From continuously asking why they can't help multiple people to just her deciding it's time to shine.
A few quick complaints:
Some of the CGI could've been touched up, but overall it was fine. Nothing that just took me out of the movie.
Some of it felt rushed to me, mainly leaving Themyscira and everything after the Gala/Act 3. Was hoping for a little more ceremonial feel with Diana getting the lasso, sword, shield, etc but it kinda felt like "we gotta hurry to London so let's just grab and go". Maybe a 2 minute scene of getting all the stuff would've been cool.
Seems like after the Gala scene everything was a little rushed. I also wish we could've gotten a little more of Ares/Sir Patrick before the big reveal. Maybe could've added him in to more scenes and him maybe being "all in" on their mission then have the reveal. Instead he's in 3 scenes (conference, bar, phone call).
Overall I can't say enough about how good this movie was. Just a few minor things kept it from being great to being really good, which is okay. Still one of my favorite origin movies and by far the best thing in the DCEU. Interested to see what the sequel will be based around. A lot of questions still to be answered.
This post was edited on 6/5/17 at 6:17 pm
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Posted on 6/5/17 at 5:48 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Something else that I realized in viewing #2 is how long we go without seeing Diana in her full costume. In most superhero films I'd be fidgeting in my seat waiting for them to get to the superhero part. The origin and transition parts of this movie are so good, I didn't care what she was wearing.
This. That Hat/Coat combo with the glasses though... my word
This post was edited on 6/5/17 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 6/5/17 at 10:14 pm to Sentrius
quote:
Hopefully DC takes a good lesson from this and understand the simple fact that the absence of Zack Snyder's involvement alone is what made this movie as good as it can be,
I keed , I keed.
Apparently he was in the trenches before WW conquers No Man's Land.
This post was edited on 6/5/17 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:06 am to BigAppleTiger
Snyder tends to do cameos and feature his son in his movies, so I was looking for them. My guess was that he was going to be the photographer taking the famous photo of WW and crew in Belgium. He wasn't, but then I found out he was in the background in that scene.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:30 am to Fewer Kilometers
It was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed. The fish out of water vibe really worked, and each member of the team got a moment. The movie served the bit players quite well, and everyone seemed like a real person. Everyone's motivations made sense, which is a huge step in the right direction. I am looking forward to this Wonder Woman in future films. So, mission accomplished.
So... my complaints. I think it was a mistake to set this during World War I. I read Jenkins' reasoning, which made good sense, but then she doesn't explore any of those complexities/similarities she mentioned as the reason for pushing it back. I'm not going to nitpick over naval tactics because I don't care, nor turning Ludendorff into a cartoon villain because in real life, he was too crazy for the Nazis. That's right, his views were so extreme, even the Nazis were like, "maybe take a break, buddy." So honestly, frick him.
The problem here was treating the Germans in WWI like Nazis. They weren't. The horror of WWI is that there was no bad guy, and the people in the trenches had a bunch in common, yet still killed each other. That's why the Christmas Truce lives on in lore. Yes, the Germans used gas. So did the Allies. Trying to paint one side as the bad guys is swallowing 100 year old propaganda and here's why that matters: it goes against what Wonder Woman is. Fish out of water? Good. Naive? Bad. Also, it was a great way to drive the wedge in her relationship, when she discovers the British are no different than the Germans, causing her to question the group (instead of over Trevor's very valid point that killing a general during a ball gala wouldn't stop the gassing).
But the part that got me was her going over the top. OK, she's a superhero who can defelct bullets. Whatever. She can go over the top. But the insinuation that if only the people in the trench had more courage, they could have crossed no man's land is horribly insulting. It also misunderstands the lesson of WWI. People died en masse precisely because they tried to be heroic (look up the French belief in elan). Her merry band of misfits should have been mowed down in seconds because that's the literal lesson of WWI: war is meat grinder, and death is random. Heroism is fool's word.
Which isn't very comic book-y. So maybe they shouldn't have put Wonder Woman on the western front. That scene really bothered me.
Rest of the movie? A+ good times.
So... my complaints. I think it was a mistake to set this during World War I. I read Jenkins' reasoning, which made good sense, but then she doesn't explore any of those complexities/similarities she mentioned as the reason for pushing it back. I'm not going to nitpick over naval tactics because I don't care, nor turning Ludendorff into a cartoon villain because in real life, he was too crazy for the Nazis. That's right, his views were so extreme, even the Nazis were like, "maybe take a break, buddy." So honestly, frick him.
The problem here was treating the Germans in WWI like Nazis. They weren't. The horror of WWI is that there was no bad guy, and the people in the trenches had a bunch in common, yet still killed each other. That's why the Christmas Truce lives on in lore. Yes, the Germans used gas. So did the Allies. Trying to paint one side as the bad guys is swallowing 100 year old propaganda and here's why that matters: it goes against what Wonder Woman is. Fish out of water? Good. Naive? Bad. Also, it was a great way to drive the wedge in her relationship, when she discovers the British are no different than the Germans, causing her to question the group (instead of over Trevor's very valid point that killing a general during a ball gala wouldn't stop the gassing).
But the part that got me was her going over the top. OK, she's a superhero who can defelct bullets. Whatever. She can go over the top. But the insinuation that if only the people in the trench had more courage, they could have crossed no man's land is horribly insulting. It also misunderstands the lesson of WWI. People died en masse precisely because they tried to be heroic (look up the French belief in elan). Her merry band of misfits should have been mowed down in seconds because that's the literal lesson of WWI: war is meat grinder, and death is random. Heroism is fool's word.
Which isn't very comic book-y. So maybe they shouldn't have put Wonder Woman on the western front. That scene really bothered me.
Rest of the movie? A+ good times.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:37 am to BigAppleTiger
I totally agree with that poster's assessment about Snyder not being involved in WW is what made it better, well, he had a small involvement if anything. With Jenkins directing this movie you got a great story that came to life impressively, as I stated on here I saw this movie about a month ago and I was very fortunate, but I enjoyed the hell out of it. But the people that complain about Gal, they don't get her that's why they the dimwits, complain. She beautifully played her part in the kind of understated way that was neccessary. She is incredibly charming funny without even realizing it because of how her personality is, understated as I said, and that's how it should have been played, she is very good at this. Everything she comes into contact with in this new world is amusing, shocking, quite engaging and everything else all rolled into one. She is a very photogenic woman that I don't think can take a bad picture. Snyder would have over done it, and with his ridiculous action sequences would have really messed it up. I'm also happy as hell he's off the Justice League movie!
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 10:53 am
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:44 am to Baloo
quote:
But the insinuation that if only the people in the trench had more courage, they could have crossed no man's land is horribly insulting.
You saw a different film than the rest of us. We saw men who had been beaten down in the trenches for years suddenly see a bulletproof superhero and her fresh allies give them a totally unforeseen opportunity.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:48 am to tubucoco
I enjoyed the movie more than I thought I would. It was definitely one of the best DC movies in the past few years.
All of the people critiquing the movie like it was some sort of documentary or something need to chill out. You knew you were going into a popcorn flick. Just sit back and enjoy the movie.
All of the people critiquing the movie like it was some sort of documentary or something need to chill out. You knew you were going into a popcorn flick. Just sit back and enjoy the movie.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:50 am to Baloo
quote:
But the part that got me was her going over the top. OK, she's a superhero who can defelct bullets. Whatever. She can go over the top. But the insinuation that if only the people in the trench had more courage, they could have crossed no man's land is horribly insulting.
I read an article many years ago about World War One. The author asks rhetorically – “If WWI was so horrible, how did anyone survive it?” The answer is that they mostly did not.
Combat units were put in the front line and were decimated. Then new units would be put in the line to take their place to be destroyed. During WWI, the French Army mutinied, as did the Austrian, Italian, Russian, and German armies. The only country with major involvement whose army didn’t mutiny was England.
U.S. Army and Marine units had similarly ruinous casualty rates as were inflicted on the other major armies during the time the U.S. was actively involved in the fighting.
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 10:53 am
Posted on 6/6/17 at 11:08 am to WhiskeyPapa
My grandfather served in WWI. He took shrapnel to his leg the day after the Armistice was signed. His family didn't know if he was dead or alive until he was shipped to a stateside hospital for assessment and he was able to get a letter out to them.
When he left for the war, he gave everything that he owned to his older brothers, including the ring on his finger. He didn't know if he would come back or not.
He'd never talk about the war, but in his last years he'd randomly mention things like the bodies stacked in trucks, or how miserable the Atlantic crossings were.
When he left for the war, he gave everything that he owned to his older brothers, including the ring on his finger. He didn't know if he would come back or not.
He'd never talk about the war, but in his last years he'd randomly mention things like the bodies stacked in trucks, or how miserable the Atlantic crossings were.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 11:51 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
You saw a different film than the rest of us. We saw men who had been beaten down in the trenches for years suddenly see a bulletproof superhero and her fresh allies give them a totally unforeseen opportunity.
This. Steve even stated they had been at a stalemate for over a year. It wasn't possible. She basically made it possible.
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 11:54 am
Posted on 6/6/17 at 11:56 am to swagsurfin7
quote:
This. That Hat/Coat combo with the glasses though... my word
My ninja. She's easy on the eyes. No doubt.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 12:13 pm to Baloo
quote:
But the insinuation that if only the people in the trench had more courage, they could have crossed no man's land is horribly insulting. It also misunderstands the lesson of WWI.
Except that Diana didn't have the experience of 3+ years of war in the trenches like the soldiers and she didn't have 100 years of history and reflection as we do. What she knew about war and battle is what she learned on Themiscyra, which from her reactions were very different than the outside world.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 12:21 pm to Sentrius
My top Wonder Woman moments from the film:
Diana as the smartest person in the room: Both as the master interpreter of Sumerian and Ottoman and in her "Language Off" with Sammy.
Diana as the empath: Seeing Charley's distress and self-doubt and bringing him back life and to the group simply by asking him "Who would sing for us?"
No Man's Land.
Diana as the smartest person in the room: Both as the master interpreter of Sumerian and Ottoman and in her "Language Off" with Sammy.
Diana as the empath: Seeing Charley's distress and self-doubt and bringing him back life and to the group simply by asking him "Who would sing for us?"
No Man's Land.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 12:23 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
We saw men who had been beaten down in the trenches for years suddenly see a bulletproof superhero and her fresh allies give them a totally unforeseen opportunity.
The camera lingers on troops who were going to go over the top, inspired by Diana, only to be pulled back in by other troops. The film consciously shows us that people were too afraid to follow EXCEPT Trevor and his group. And that's completely inverting the lesson of World War I. Trevor and his pals would've been killed instantly by machine gun fire.
It just doesn't tonally work. WWI is not triumphant or heroic. It is a meat grinder of death. I don't think it ruined the film. I enjoyed it, but I think the setting was a mistake.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 12:28 pm to Baloo
quote:
WWI is not triumphant or heroic. It is a meat grinder of death. I don't think it ruined the film. I enjoyed it, but I think the setting was a mistake.
I disagree on WWI not being heroic. But if it was the pointless meat grinder that you proclaim, it seems the perfect war and setting to place Ares. Way more appropriate than the just war of WWII.
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 6/6/17 at 1:09 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
I disagree on WWI not being heroic.
All the major armies mutinied but one. Germany and Russia fell into revolution.
The aftermath was to produce Hitler, whom Churchill called this “Monstrous product of former wrongs and shame.” He meant the Treaty of Versailles, designed to torture the Germans. The Germans had to comply with the treaty because the army had disintegrated. But the British and French had troops in the field. The economic chaos produced by the treaty helped lead to the rise of the Nazis.
And you can’t say that the death of the men who died in World War One served any useful purpose whatsoever. Heroic is not the right word. It is not heroic to die as sheep by the hands of incompetents who cared nothing for their lives.
I watched an episode of “20th Century” done of course back in the 1950’s. On the one for Stalingrad, they showed the beaten and starved Germans trudging off into captivity. Only 5,000 of 90,000 would survive. Walter Cronkite read this poem by a German poet. I don’t recall it exactly but it was a lament -- but that was the theme – “Why did you let yourselves be killed like sheep?”
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 6/6/17 at 1:16 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
But if it was the pointless meat grinder that you proclaim, it seems the perfect war and setting to place Ares.
How could it be when the outcome of World War One was to clear the way for death and suffering of heretofore unheard of levels?
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:28 pm to Sentrius
Got to see this tonighy. I was absolutely mesmerized by Gadot and not just because she was hot. I guess charming would be the best word. Her and Pine had incredible chemistry. Also, whisky papa is awful!
Posted on 6/6/17 at 10:52 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Jesus christ, some of you do realize that Wonder Woman is not real and this was not a film based on a true story, right?
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