re: Why Batman Begins is still Christopher Nolan's best Batman movie

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Either way I think we can all agree that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are far superior to The Dark Knight Rises

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Maybe, but people tend to overlook BB’s issues while magnifying them in TDKR. Those two movies were not held to the same standard.

BB has easily the worst action of the three.

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Batman v. more minor guys

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You call Ras Al Ghul & Scarecrow minor?

I personally prefer TDK, but I'm not going to criticize BB. It is also a very good movie, but for me TDK is more rewatchable.

This is the view of a lot of people. TDK is my all time favorite super hero movie and BB is #2. So I love BB but I disagree with a few things...

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It Features The Best On-Screen Death Of The Waynes

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This has nothing to do TDK, so that cant be a reason it's better than TDK. Were we supposed to see them die a different way then compare them? This is more of a debate between Nolan and Burton.

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Christian Bale At His Most Primal

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Definitely.

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The Best Depiction Of Gotham City

There's nothing wrong with presenting a version of the DC universe that resembles our own, but that doesn't change the fact that the Gotham City seen in The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises lacked a certain amount of distinguishing character. By contrast, Batman Begins presented audiences with a landscape that felt like a heightened sense of reality. Impressive set pieces like Thomas Wayne's monorail and The Narrows (coupled with scenery chewing characters like Carmine Falcone) gave the film a real "comic book" aesthetic and made Batman Begins feel ripped straight from the pages of Frank Miller's Year One.

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But that was the heart of the plot. You seeing how bad the city was and the landscape. TDK focused more on the people itself. You saw the city being cleaned up and that there were actually good people in the city, aka the bombs on the boats scene. I dont think you can say it was the best depiction of Gotham seeing as they focused on two completely different aspects of the city. And TDKR not focusing on the landscape at all really.

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By contrast, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises seemingly faltered on that idea by showing a version of Bruce willing to quit his war against crime the moment he suffers his first casualty. That's not Batman, at all.

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Not arguing this, more of I'm not sure when this was in TDK. In TDKR he was being pushed to give up. That was his struggle. When did he quit in TDK?

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The Film Relies On Obscure Villains

We are not going to deny the fact that Heath Ledger's Joker is the pinnacle of Batman movie villains. There's even a case to be made that he is the best on-screen villain of all time. Having said that, Batman Begins' use of more obscure villains like Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, Carmine Falcone, and Victor Zsasz helps the story breathe more than The Dark Knight's. In an era where multiple villains can destroy the integrity of a comic book movie, Batman Begins not only managed to hold its incredibly large cast together; it made the entire process look easy.

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It doesn't make much sense to say TDK has the best villain but BB has the best "obscure" villain. How is that a legit argument? And even if he wants to make a pointless argument, he's even wrong on that.

If Falcone and Zsasz are included in his reasoning then why wouldnt Marone or Chechin be considered "obscure" villians? Chechin would be a better villain than Falcone or Zsasz. And I guess you just get to leave out Two Face from the argument. So they have the same amount of villians and TDK has the best of them all.

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Tone is obviously subjective, but the hopeful nature of Batman Begins quickly helps it stand out as the superior Nolan Batman film.

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And TDK stands out as the darkest/sacrificial and TDKR ends up being the most fulfilling. That's just a personal opinion that he likes that tone better. But like he says, that is subjective.

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It Has The Best Ending

By virtue of its status as the first entry in the entire Dark Knight trilogy, Batman Begins tells the most self-contained story with easily the most satisfying conclusion of Nolan's three Batman movies

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Completely disagree. TDKR has a much more satisfying ending. Small things like Gordan finding out who Batman actually was, to Batman saving the city, and most of all, Alfred seeing Wayne and Salina at the end. You realize that Batman/Wayne was happy. That's much satisfying than an ending that told you Batman was still needed.

Also, I dont really see how he considers BB a stand alone movie and not TDK. Pretty much anybody would agree that TDK was the one of the three that could have been stand alone.

bump for good convo

I always thought people liking BB more than TDK was the hipsterish way of saying frick the norm, man.

TDK is on a completely different level than any other superhero movie. I’m obsessed with the marvel cinematic universe, and I think winter soldier is the best movie they’ve created, but that movie still doesn’t have shite on the dark knight.

How exciting was it when that first Batman Begins trailer was released? Great film. Holds up really well.

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That was crazy opening night, and the movie surpassed many already high expectations.

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The opening bank robbery scene in TDK is one of the best opening scenes ever to me.

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If you could only watch one of them ever again, which would it be?

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Dark Knight. Ledger's performance is something I don't think I could get from other movies.

Batman Begins is great, but there are other decaying city movies (Blade Runner leaps to mind) and other origin stories that give you some of the elements. Ledger's Joker is the most unique aspect of the two movies for me, and if I could only walk away with one, I'd preserve the most unique thing.

Subtract that one element and it's a total tossup for me.