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Started By
Message
re: Why are the SW prequels fair game for criticism, but TFA somehow sacred?
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:24 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 12/21/15 at 9:24 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
It seems you predetermined to not like the movie and are shitting on it just for the sake of it.
Nothing could be farther From the truth.
I went in as giddy as a schoolgirl. But God dammit, this ain't my first date. You get me in a dark room you better damn well impress me, not just put on a little slap and tickle and expect me to go "oooohhhh, that's the best I've ever had."
quote:
. Its a background character, nothing more.
Billed as the "first major female villain" in Star Wars?
quote:
That she has a silver, cool looking different uniform is no doubt designed to sell toys but that hardly makes her an awful character,
That's the core of what makes awful characters. The core sins of the OT, and one of the many core sins of the prequels!
That's what this thread is about, holding up TFA to the same standards and not letting them get away with bullshite just because "Star Wars is back".
2
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:19 pm to blueboy
And so it begins. Huff post of all places rips apart the plot holes ride in The Force Awakens
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:34 pm to fr33manator
quote:
And so it begins. Huff post of all places rips apart the plot holes ride in The Force Awakens
And yet the author states:
quote:
I loved the film. Seriously, I did.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:37 pm to BulldogXero
You do realize the two aren't mutually exclusive, right?
I didn't hate the film either. I had a great time there. Laughed my arse off.
I didn't hate the film either. I had a great time there. Laughed my arse off.
This post was edited on 12/21/15 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 12/21/15 at 10:41 pm to fr33manator
Jesus, no one doesn't acknowledge there are plot holes in ANY big action franchise, including Star Wars...including the first trilogy. Who the F cares? Seriously. It was an enjoyable movie. I am actually beginning to feel sorry for the people out there that can't just enjoy it for what it is- a great reboot for a great story.
Posted on 12/21/15 at 11:25 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Nothing could be farther From the truth.
You say that and then trot out strawnman after strawman
quote:
You get me in a dark room you better damn well impress me, not just put on a little slap and tickle and expect me to go "oooohhhh, that's the best I've ever had."
Really, who is calling it the best they've ever seen? I mean there is always over the top hyperbole somewhere, but how does that ruin it for you because some geek goes overboard. I thought it was enjoyable and more like what I expect Star Wars to be in terms of looks and a pretty straight forward, if unoriginal plot.
quote:
Billed as the "first major female villain" in Star Wars?
Where? I haven't seen that anywhere unless you are counting the headline of that silly interview you linked. But again, why are you letting what some moron says affect how you view the movie.
quote:
That's the core of what makes awful characters. The core sins of the OT, and one of the many core sins of the prequels!
Wut? The core of awful characters is they made a toy of it? That's pretty ridiculous. I'm sorry, I judge a character as good or bad based on how it plays on the screen or in the story not what others say about it for PC or marketing purposes. The character Phasma on the screen is nothing but a background character at best that has maybe 3 sentences in the entire movie. That is not enough to be judged as good or bad imo. I really don't care if some panty waste at HuffPo is creaming over her as "major" villain because it is a woman.
And the core sin of the prequels (and i realize most people bitch about JarJar (now that is an awful character
) and the acting but those are secondary for me) is that the story is convoluted and makes no sense and they cram in too many special effects and cgi because they can. It looks too sterile. quote:
hat's what this thread is about, holding up TFA to the same standards and not letting them get away with bullshite just because "Star Wars is back".
still sounds to me like you were predetermined not to like it, but what evs. Pointing out the prequels are terrible doesn't mean we think TFA is "flawless" just that it is good enough. I enjoyed it. so i can over look some minor plot holes and even the tired 3rd Death Star, so sue me
Posted on 12/22/15 at 12:00 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 12/22/15 at 12:19 am to H-Town Tiger
I don't think The Force Awakens is an Oscar-worthy film, but none of the Star Wars movies ever were, or were intended to be. They are space fantasy adventures.
This is a welcome return to the story at hand, although a little late in the game. It's nice to actually be current in the story again, too- the big plot moment was that Han Solo dies.
Think about that a minute, and compare to the prequels. Han was one of the Big Three of Luke, Leia and Han. Indispensable to the series thus far (the OT). Everyone's favorite action hero, and turned Harrison Ford into a star.
Prequels? Well, you got Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine... they ABSOLUTELY are going to live. Padme? Well, don't seem to recall a Lady Vader in the OT, and Luke and Leia are split off and hidden, so she's either going to die or live in a convent; not good going forward for her. Although they might have messed up the timeline, since Leia seems to remember her mother as being very sad... she's able to recall her first 30 seconds? Because that's about how long Padme lasted.
Other Jedi? Toast. If the seperatists don't get them, then Vader and Palpatine will. And so on.
Now, we're back up to speed. If Han can die, anyone can; Luke can lose a duel, or he can stroke out fretting about the pointlessness of all his Jedi intentions. The droids can get blasted into pieces, and not be put back together this time (C3PO, I'm looking at you). You don't THINK they will, but they can. That puts a little refreshing danger and suspense back into it all.
This is a welcome return to the story at hand, although a little late in the game. It's nice to actually be current in the story again, too- the big plot moment was that Han Solo dies.
Think about that a minute, and compare to the prequels. Han was one of the Big Three of Luke, Leia and Han. Indispensable to the series thus far (the OT). Everyone's favorite action hero, and turned Harrison Ford into a star.
Prequels? Well, you got Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda, Palpatine... they ABSOLUTELY are going to live. Padme? Well, don't seem to recall a Lady Vader in the OT, and Luke and Leia are split off and hidden, so she's either going to die or live in a convent; not good going forward for her. Although they might have messed up the timeline, since Leia seems to remember her mother as being very sad... she's able to recall her first 30 seconds? Because that's about how long Padme lasted.
Other Jedi? Toast. If the seperatists don't get them, then Vader and Palpatine will. And so on.
Now, we're back up to speed. If Han can die, anyone can; Luke can lose a duel, or he can stroke out fretting about the pointlessness of all his Jedi intentions. The droids can get blasted into pieces, and not be put back together this time (C3PO, I'm looking at you). You don't THINK they will, but they can. That puts a little refreshing danger and suspense back into it all.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 12:26 am to JumpingTheShark
fr66 and blueboy are definitely trolling which is bad in its own right but so are the people who keep engaging them as well. SFP isn't quite trolling, but he is (not so) low key trying to take a pseudo-intellectual high road but all of his high and mighty points about the movie are nothing more than a House of Cards.
What's funny is no one has been able to given a honest negative review of it as a movie. I mean not liking it and thinking it is a bad movie are two separate ideas. I can see why some people don't like Django Unchained or the Wolf of Wall Street, but to say they are bad movies is just asinine. Same thing with TFA.
What's funny is no one has been able to given a honest negative review of it as a movie. I mean not liking it and thinking it is a bad movie are two separate ideas. I can see why some people don't like Django Unchained or the Wolf of Wall Street, but to say they are bad movies is just asinine. Same thing with TFA.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 1:57 am to ReturnoftheMuschamp
quote:
What's funny is no one has been able to given a honest negative review of it as a movie
In 3 words. Sloppy fricking Storytelling.
In more, it's rife with plotholes, unnecessary characters, inconsistecies even within the Star Wars universe, bad acting, poor casting, and holy shite terrible writing!
Visually, it's striking. Han and Chewie and the Falcon are great. I loved seeing Luke again.
Rey and Poe aren't terrible. Could be fleshed out and salvaged.
But holy frick if you can't admit that the Starkiller is god awful, the Fifth order is apparently staffed by angsty teenagers, and that without massive marketing and the big swinging dick of What Star Wars is behind it it's not worthy of the praise it is getting then you are in denial.
You can enjoy a seriously flawed movie for external reasons. We all do.
But to call it a "fantastic film" to quote scoop is an absolute load of Bantha shite.
And no, anyone that disagrees with your asinine points isn't making straw men. Or trolling.
They are calling out the fricking Emporer for having no clothes.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 2:27 am to fr33manator
quote:
it's rife with plotholes,
Not even close. For someone who thinks they are so smart, you sure do things forcefed to you. quote:
unnecessary characters,
Such as?
quote:
inconsistecies even within the Star Wars universe
There were literally none of these. Literally none.
quote:
bad acting
quote:
poor casting
quote:
holy shite terrible writing!
Okay so you say this movie has terrible writing then that must mean that A New Hope had terrible writing since you and blue have consistently pmsed about it being the same movie and by proxy Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark were horrible too. Good luck with that.
And fwiw, I do have a couple of minor issues with TFA, but jesus some of you act like it should be up for Razzie or because it isn't YOUR vision of what Star Wars is or was, then that means it's wrong and needs to be destroyed.
As for another reason why the prequels suck, this scene was suppose to take place on a desert landscape in the middle of a Colosseum-esque venue and look at how it was filmed:
Meanwhile, pretty much all of the land-based scenes in TFA were on actual sets built out on real landscapes - Final shot was down on a real island, Resistance base was on a former air force base, Jakku was almost entire desert.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 5:59 am to Tactical1
Never saw THX did you?
Posted on 12/22/15 at 6:04 am to fr33manator
quote:You have an unpopular opinion. You need to accept that and move on. I once voiced my opinion that Fury Road is one of the worst movies I've ever seen (rated it 3/10). As you can imagine, my opinion was not well received. The difference is that I didn't bitch and troll like you are doing. You didn't like it, so move on.
fr33manator
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 6:06 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 7:09 am to fr33manator
quote:
I went in as giddy as a schoolgirl. But God dammit, this ain't my first date. You get me in a dark room you better damn well impress me, not just put on a little slap and tickle and expect me to go "oooohhhh, that's the best I've ever had."
Wait. You're a girl? If not, this thread just got pretty weird.
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:09 am to fr33manator
quote:
Is it because you are older than when the prequels came out? Is it because of the casting choices? Script? Visual effects?
I enjoyed the story, but I purposely went in not knowing anything about it.
I really enjoyed that it had the original feel. Way more sets way less green screen. The worlds looked lived in, not sterile like I-III. Way more costumes instead of CGI. It had the sense of wonder the original had, and I was 10 when I saw the original in the theater.
It honestly sounds like you just want to complain about it to be that guy.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 8:11 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:21 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Can you expand on that thought?
Sure. Here's how I see it. If you have to bend the boundaries of an established universe to justify the different appearance of a character, then maybe that's not the background you should have chosen for him.
We know from previously established canon that Stormtroopers are clones. So what is different about Finn that requires expository explanation for why he is a Stormtrooper? He looks different from them.
But he acts differently, too! That's what apologists will say, that the establishment of non-Clone Stormtroopers opens the door for Finn's behavioral variance. That his appearance variable is a side issue.
I say BS to that. Ever make a copy of a copy? How about a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy? Which is more likely to go haywire? A copy or an original? It would be SO easy to explain a clone Stormtrooper going rogue.
Instead, we have a story-bound pretext to introduce Stormtroopers of different races and genders. But wait... that's still acceptable in the storyline, right? Sure. But let's honest here. It's a lot easier to do the same old clones, AND it fits the Star Wars universe as we know it. So why the change? It doesn't add or take away from the Stormtroopers if they are male or female, black or white. Yet, here we are with diverse Stormtroopers.
Now, to tell you the truth, I don't really care that the Stormtroopers are diverse or not. My problem with it is that the story/universe is bent to make it work. That's why I feel it's being forced on audiences.
And how do I know this? Because it would have been a hell of a lot easier to make Poe Dameron black than Finn. There's no canon-breaking background there. That would have been a plum, heroic role for a black man (or woman for that matter). It would have been fantastic for the cause of diversity.
But instead, we have a black character shoehorned into a place he doesn't belong canon-wise, and what, exactly do we have with this character? A runaway, cowardly-lion type that conjures stereotypes of both the runaway black slave and the black male/white female sexual taboo. In their efforts to promote diversity, the filmmakers have stumbled right into the same old shite movies have been doing for decades.
So who's being the bigot now? People like me, who would actually buy a black character who would otherwise be "just like everyone else," who feel uncomfortable with forced black and female characters... or... the studio, which apparently said, hey, Star Wars has taken a hit over the years for lack of black characters. Let's find a good black actor to play a lead... who's a runaway that needs saving by a white guy and a white woman. Oh... and let's also make him a garbage man, because that's not stereotypical EITHER.
Any of this starting to hit home a little? I might be over-sensitive to it... but come on... you can see how the studio bungled this, right?
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:22 am to fr33manator
quote:
fr33manator
I agree with you to the extent that the pacing is too fast, there's too much plot/too many characters, and both the fan service and humor goes a little too far. To say this is some kind of great film is silly.
All of that having been said, it was still a very enjoyable star wars movie with a whole host of interesting new characters and is a very good jumping off point to essentially reboot the series.
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 8:23 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:27 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
We know from previously established canon that Stormtroopers are clones
Uh that was like 50 or 60 years ago in this universe. And a completely different regime. Clones were being phased out even in the OT era.
quote:
My problem with it is that the story/universe is bent to make it work
you don't know what you're talking about
This post was edited on 12/22/15 at 8:38 am
Posted on 12/22/15 at 8:43 am to SpqrTiger
I don't have a problem with Finn being black, since Stormtroopers were assumed to be conscripts in the OT.
My problem is with the chick stormtrooper who lowered the shield. If they are really so highly trained and mind conditioned, why not say "Hell, no!"
TK-421 might have got his arse handed to him, but he didn't outright betray the Empire.
Phasma
My problem is with the chick stormtrooper who lowered the shield. If they are really so highly trained and mind conditioned, why not say "Hell, no!"
TK-421 might have got his arse handed to him, but he didn't outright betray the Empire.
PhasmaPosted on 12/22/15 at 8:48 am to Master of Sinanju
Yeah I agree, that really did hurt Phasma's character.
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