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Message
What I didn’t like about Mad Men
Posted on 6/24/20 at 2:03 am
Posted on 6/24/20 at 2:03 am
The way everybody spoke was just so inauthentic. Everyone always had the clever retort, the quick witty response. Everything was just so obviously coming off a script. People just don’t talk like that in normal conversation. So many examples, like when Rachel talks about the Greek origin of the word “utopia” and makes some eloquent point . People don’t walk around all day talking like this. None of it was genuine to me. And EVERYONE’s always dropping some “my father always said to me” , my grandmother always told me”. Cmon man. Our elders didn’t teach us by always dropping these brilliant platitudes ( my mother always said” you’re painting a masterpiece, don’t let them see the brush strokes”. I’ve been watching the shows again and it’s incessant; these beautiful soliloquy’s embedded in everyday conversations, clever pillow talk, etc. I don’t mind suspending belief for drama like this , and it’s well written stuff, but c’mon man-people don’t talk this way!
The second thing is I don’t think it was plausible the way every single woman fell for Don Draper almost immediately when they meet him. He’s good looking but not like a Leonardo, or Brad Pitt, Clooney . Plus, he’s not an outgoing charming guy that would attract a woman right away. He has this more mysterious personality, almost aloof, and the idea that every single waitress, stewardess or otherwise is just immediately drawn to him despite his aloof demeanor , we’ll that just doesn’t fly well with me. The guy had so many issues about himself and his past, such that his outward personality had to reflect that, which means he would not have this immediate magnetism affecting women upon meeting him.
Does anyone else agree with either of these points?
I mostly enjoy the show, but those are a couple of things that irk me.
The second thing is I don’t think it was plausible the way every single woman fell for Don Draper almost immediately when they meet him. He’s good looking but not like a Leonardo, or Brad Pitt, Clooney . Plus, he’s not an outgoing charming guy that would attract a woman right away. He has this more mysterious personality, almost aloof, and the idea that every single waitress, stewardess or otherwise is just immediately drawn to him despite his aloof demeanor , we’ll that just doesn’t fly well with me. The guy had so many issues about himself and his past, such that his outward personality had to reflect that, which means he would not have this immediate magnetism affecting women upon meeting him.
Does anyone else agree with either of these points?
I mostly enjoy the show, but those are a couple of things that irk me.
18
Posted on 6/24/20 at 2:12 am to selfgen
quote:
People just don’t talk like that in normal conversation. So many examples, like when Rachel talks about the Greek origin of the word “utopia” and makes some eloquent point . People don’t walk around all day talking like this.
Well maybe not now.
In case you haven't been keeping up with the Kardashians, people are stupid today. Have you ever read a Civil War letter from a soldier back home to his wife and then read a tweet or email?
quote:
Our elders didn’t teach us by always dropping these brilliant platitudes...these beautiful soliloquy’s embedded in everyday conversations, clever pillow talk, etc.
Now you're going to start insulting Little House on the Prairie.
quote:
The second thing is I don’t think it was plausible the way every single woman fell for Don Draper almost immediately when they meet him. He’s good looking but not like a Leonardo, or Brad Pitt, Clooney .
Don would get all the women over those clowns in the 50's and 60's - only Clooney would have a shot.
Women didn't want boys; they wanted men.
Bottom line, the show did their research. It's "not too smart" for it's time. It's just "too smart" for todays Idiocracy.
This post was edited on 6/24/20 at 2:16 am
Posted on 6/24/20 at 5:15 am to selfgen
I think your first point has some validity, but as the above poster pointed out, the people of that period likely were more eloquent than people of today. Nevertheless, it’s a point well taken. I think that I often gave them credit for the fact that most of the characters were copy writers and ad men, so they were naturally creative types.
Regarding your second point, I disagree with you. I’m not a female, nor am I gay, so I can’t say if the actor truly fit the role, but a I’ve been around a a very small number of guys in my life who were exactly like Don. They were just chick magnets. Women either wanted them and openly drooled on them, or they acted bitchy around them trying to pretend not to like them.
Don was handsome, smart, outwardly rugged, inwardly vulnerable, rich, successful, mysterious, and just fricking smooth as silk with the ladies when he wanted to be. I had no qualms in finding his character believable.
Regarding your second point, I disagree with you. I’m not a female, nor am I gay, so I can’t say if the actor truly fit the role, but a I’ve been around a a very small number of guys in my life who were exactly like Don. They were just chick magnets. Women either wanted them and openly drooled on them, or they acted bitchy around them trying to pretend not to like them.
Don was handsome, smart, outwardly rugged, inwardly vulnerable, rich, successful, mysterious, and just fricking smooth as silk with the ladies when he wanted to be. I had no qualms in finding his character believable.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 7:50 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
In case you haven't been keeping up with the Kardashians, people are stupid today.
quote:
Have you ever read a Civil War letter from a soldier back home to his wife and then read a tweet or email?
Spot on. America is such a stupid, idiotic filled country right now, it's mind numbing.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:15 am to selfgen
What I didn’t like about your post is that you don’t seem to know what a paragraph is.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:16 am to selfgen
quote:
The second thing is I don’t think it was plausible the way every single woman fell for Don Draper almost immediately when they meet him. He’s good looking but not like a Leonardo, or Brad Pitt, Clooney . Plus, he’s not an outgoing charming guy that would attract a woman right away. He has this more mysterious personality, almost aloof, and the idea that every single waitress, stewardess or otherwise is just immediately drawn to him despite his aloof demeanor , we’ll that just doesn’t fly well with me.
This is the most absurd take of all time.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:18 am to selfgen
quote:
He has this more mysterious personality, almost aloof, and the idea that every single waitress, stewardess or otherwise is just immediately drawn to him despite his aloof demeanor , we’ll that just doesn’t fly well with me.
In the 60's, we kept our women down just like we did our minorities. They didn't expect men to open up, and tell them how they felt. It wasn't necessary to do so, so why bother?
quote:
The guy had so many issues about himself and his past, such that his outward personality had to reflect that, which means he would not have this immediate magnetism affecting women upon meeting him.
Deep down women want to change men. Some of them seek out damaged guys, especially the ones that are handsome, and good in the sack.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:34 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
In case you haven't been keeping up with the Kardashians, people are stupid today.
Proof just a couple of threads down.
TIL: Michael Bay directed this commercial thread on this page
Can't believe people wouldn't remember Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr fought a duel. It was probably on the same test with Benedict Arnold being a traitor and George Washington cutting down a cherry tree in elementary school.
This post was edited on 6/24/20 at 8:36 am
Posted on 6/24/20 at 8:54 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Bottom line, the show did their research. It's "not too smart" for it's time. It's just "too smart" for todays Idiocracy.
Well spoken!!
Posted on 6/24/20 at 9:00 am to selfgen
quote:
The way everybody spoke was just so inauthentic. Everyone always had the clever retort, the quick witty response.
You must hate David Mamet and despise Aaron Sorkin.
BTW, you're talking about a show that was centered around a major ad agency. You know who is drawn to working in major ad agencies? Artists, writers, and pitchmen who excel at the clever retort and witty response.
Place the show on a farm or a factory floor and your objection would be more valid.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 9:02 am to Fewer Kilometers
The listed complaints from OP
1.) I wish the writing were worse
2.) don drapers not that hot.
Hot takes starting early this morning
1.) I wish the writing were worse
2.) don drapers not that hot.
Hot takes starting early this morning
Posted on 6/24/20 at 9:10 am to selfgen
quote:
He has this more mysterious personality, almost aloof,
Yeah women NEVER go for the handsome, aloof, mysterious dudes.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 9:42 am to selfgen
I really liked Mad Men the first time, but I found it a bit difficult to get through the second time. Much of that had to do with where I was at mentally when I watched. Frankly, the biggest issue is that with few exceptions, the characters aren't likable or redeemable. The writing is exceptional, however, even to the point that the scripts and the actors do their jobs in making the characters unlikable and irredeemable.
Don is the guy that every woman wants to be with and change. He is the matinee idol star type in the world of that time, and it is overtly stated on more than one occasion. He and Betty are viewed as Ken and Barbie...Rock Hudson and Grace Kelly. They are the archetypes of an era that is quickly fading and Don is screwed up to the point that he can't help but self-destruct.
The way most of the characters speak is pithy, eloquent, or simply covertly hostile. There actually was a time when society did not rely on 280 characters, duck lips, and Tik Tok to communicate. Words, and their use, mattered then. We are seeing the world of educated individuals, men and women, and working girls who are doing their best to live up to the standards of that world.
Don is the guy that every woman wants to be with and change. He is the matinee idol star type in the world of that time, and it is overtly stated on more than one occasion. He and Betty are viewed as Ken and Barbie...Rock Hudson and Grace Kelly. They are the archetypes of an era that is quickly fading and Don is screwed up to the point that he can't help but self-destruct.
The way most of the characters speak is pithy, eloquent, or simply covertly hostile. There actually was a time when society did not rely on 280 characters, duck lips, and Tik Tok to communicate. Words, and their use, mattered then. We are seeing the world of educated individuals, men and women, and working girls who are doing their best to live up to the standards of that world.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 9:47 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
People weren't smarter and more educated in the past. Especially not civil war era where 20% of people couldn't even read. It is an objective fact that modern populations are more educated than the past. You just don't know the difference between antiquated, old fashioned language and intelligence.
This post was edited on 6/24/20 at 9:48 am
Posted on 6/24/20 at 10:20 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
Regarding your second point, I disagree with you. I’m not a female, nor am I gay, so I can’t say if the actor truly fit the role, but a I’ve been around a a very small number of guys in my life who were exactly like Don. They were just chick magnets. Women either wanted them and openly drooled on them, or they acted bitchy around them trying to pretend not to like them.
I'm both a woman and I was around in the 1960's even though I was a child. The above is totally true, but that's not the whole story about women falling for Don. There's other 60's things in play here.
Most of the young women working at the agency or anywhere, were just doing it till they found a man to marry. At 30, you were an old maid. When Don was unmarried (or even unhappily married), women saw him as quite a catch. Women wanted to be wined and dined. He could do that in style. The other thing is the sexual revolution of the 60's. There were books directed towards women such as Sex and the Single Girl. The pill was widely used as well. There were a lot of women enjoying this new found freedom and Don was all the things mentioned above, so of course, a lot of those women found him.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 12:09 pm to selfgen
1. Welcome to every work of fiction ever. Mad Men has the best in universe reason to justify this though - these are the elite of New York working very specifically in a creative industry. As compared to say, high school Freshmen in (insert any teenage show/movie here) talking that same way.
2. I’ve known a few guys that had no problem getting an absurd level of attention from women, with 1/10th the wealth of Don Draper and in way more sparse locations than NYC. This all seems fairly believable for the character.
2. I’ve known a few guys that had no problem getting an absurd level of attention from women, with 1/10th the wealth of Don Draper and in way more sparse locations than NYC. This all seems fairly believable for the character.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 12:12 pm to LaLadyinTx
This post was edited on 6/24/20 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 6/24/20 at 12:16 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:Mamet at least has an angle with Mamet speak. Sorkin is the one I hate - every line is so absurdly "written".
You must hate David Mamet and despise Aaron Sorkin.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 1:13 pm to Michael T. Tiger
quote:
Frankly, the biggest issue is that with few exceptions, the characters aren't likable or redeemable.
I mean, that might be the most realistic aspect of the show.
Posted on 6/24/20 at 1:22 pm to selfgen
quote:
The way everybody spoke was just so inauthentic.
If you want to observe ordinary, average, stupid Americans talk, just get out there and talk with them.
I doubt you'll get money to film and air that, absent some of them being of celebrity or royal flavor.
Good luck with it, though.
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