re: Walking Dead or Game of Thrones

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You completely rail on LOST, but you give "The Walking Dead" a pass?

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Walking Dead isn't throwing a bunch of plot holes at me.

I rail on Lost, but I'd probably have it in the same GoT/TWD/Lost tier. They all have some massive flaws, just different kinds.

The issue with Lost is I'm always more interested in the narrative, the story, and that's Lost's biggest flaw, especially when it presents itself as mystery-centric.

Game of Thrones, in every possible way.

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I don't think any of these will be remembered in 30+ Years. And the one with the best chance is TWD. TWD is on the way down, but it had a higher peak and a higher cultural impact than GoT.

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I mean, really. Not many of my friends watch TWD. I think Tyrion has a bigger impact on pop culture alone than it has.

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Lost was more popular than the others, but it's also a product of the marketing and the mystery, the further we get away from Lost, the more it will fall. Lost has the least chance of being talked about in 30 years, and won't stand up to something like the X-Files.

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Here's the thing though: LOST was the show that got the ball rolling on serialized dramas. No way would TWD or GoT exist without LOST flearing the path for them. Serialized dramas were frowned upon until LOST entered the fray. Yeah the Sopranos was up there as well, and I also think it will be remembered 30 years from now. LOST was the show though that convinced executives that viewers wanted complex narratives and characters. The television landscape would probably be for the worse now if LOST never came to fruition.

Also this board has a LOST thread of someone discovering it every other week. I think it is aging fairly well so far.

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That might be enough for it to be more remembered though.

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I doubt it, because using this low standard, I'm sure LOST will at least be remembered as "the Island show with flashbacks" and GoT will be remembered as "That fantasy show with violence". That's the worst case scenario for their legacies.

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These are all genre shows, fans will hold them in high regard, fans of the genres will hold them in high regard. The public? Not so much. The public memory is fickle unless something is truly groundbreaking, none of these are, or have flaws that will keep them from that - Lost as a product of the moment, HBO's control over content, TWD's more volatile quality.

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I mean I think that each have produced 3 Top 100 Episodes of all time (in chronological order):

LOST:
1) The Pilot
2) Through the Looking Glass (Season 3 Finale)
3) The Constant

Game of Thrones:
1) Blackwater
2) The Battle of the Bastards
3) The Winds of Winter

As far as I'm aware, TWD has not produced episodes close to this quality.

Are you sure you're talking about the right show? GoT is as unpredictable as it gets. Season one of walking dead was good, but it has been declining in quality for some time. GoT might be one of the best TV shows ever. It's in the discussion, whereas the walking dead is doing the same thing it's been doing, showing us ANOTHER safe haven, that will come under attack, and prevail with Rick and Darrell remaining alive. I can't think of anyone that is 100% safe for next season in GoT.

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I mean, really. Not many of my friends watch TWD. I think Tyrion has a bigger impact on pop culture alone than it has.

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I mean, you and your friends won't determine legacy, Lost continually averaged above 10.0 ratings, Walking Dead is sitting right around 10, and GoT's best night was an 8.9. Best. It averages around 6-7.

(FWIW, TWD is averaging around 7.5 this season, so it's way down).

That's what matters.

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Here's the thing though: LOST was the show that got the ball rolling on serialized dramas. No way would TWD or GoT exist without LOST flearing the path for them. Serialized dramas were frowned upon until LOST entered the fray. Yeah the Sopranos was up there as well, and I also think it will be remembered 30 years from now. LOST was the show though that convinced executives that viewers wanted complex narratives and characters. The television landscape would probably be for the worse now if LOST never came to fruition.

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This isn't the discussion though. If we're talking legacy, this will matter less and less over time as serialized shows become more and more abundant. It will be that trivia question about the first time a man and wife were in bed in television for the first time?

I mean, no one watches Mary Kay and Johnny anymore, but that was a first. Arguably, Lost will have a better legacy, but it's never going to be Star Trek/X-Files/Twilight Zone/etc.

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Also this board has a LOST thread of someone discovering it every other week. I think it is aging fairly well so far.

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Not that often. We had two fairly recently, but not many before that.

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I mean I think that each have produced 3 Top 100 Episodes of all time (in chronological order):

LOST:
1) The Pilot
2) Through the Looking Glass (Season 3 Finale)
3) The Constant

Game of Thrones:
1) Blackwater
2) The Battle of the Bastards
3) The Winds of Winter

As far as I'm aware, TWD has not produced episodes close to this quality.

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So you think your Top 100 episode list will have an effect on the legacy of these shows? Come on, that doesn't mean jack or squat.

I have no doubt that one or two Lost episodes will retain that kind status, Maybe one or two GoT's as well, but those are circle jerks for nerds like us, they don't determine real, rerun type legacy. We are still getting X-Files reruns and Star Trek reruns, and Twilight Zone reruns. Think about that.

I think the issue is, People who really like Game of Thrones REALLY like Game of Thrones, again, look at all of the responses when someone questions it. It's like you can't question it. You aren't allowed to. There's a GoT bubble that apparently people can't see around. It's a pretty good show, by no means is it more popular than TWD (or Lost), and I think the only way it gets to be more popular over time is if HBO loosens up on its policies a bit.

The more we start subscription streaming, the more they will have to adapt. In 10 years, if it isn't available to watch in multiple locations that aren't HBO, people won't have access to it.

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I mean, you and your friends won't determine legacy, Lost continually averaged above 10.0 ratings, Walking Dead is sitting right around 10, and GoT's best night was an 8.9. Best. It averages around 6-7.

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LOST was the show where they first took TiVo into account. HBO knows that more than half of their viewers don't subscribe to the channel. They still buy the damn merchandise though. They've gone on record of not particularly caring that half their viewers pirate it. GoT is much more popular than TWD is.

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I mean, no one watches Mary Kay and Johnny anymore, but that was a first. Arguably, Lost will have a better legacy, but it's never going to be Star Trek/X-Files/Twilight Zone/etc.

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I honestly think LOST's legacy will be roughly the same as the X-Files. Not quite the Twilight Zone and certainly not Star Trek, but it's legacy will be in the Top 5 for Sci Fi series.

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So you think your Top 100 episode list will have an effect on the legacy of these shows? Come on, that doesn't mean jack or squat.

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Not mine personally, but if the Associated Press were to put together a "Top 100 Episodes of All Time List" all 6 of those would be heavy contenders.

And if your series has 3 of the Top 100 Episodes of all Time, I think it heavily speaks in favor for the quality of your show. There are tens of thousands of shows, and for you to make 3 Top 100 Episodes is incredible.

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I have no doubt that one or two Lost episodes will retain that kind status, Maybe one or two GoT's as well, but those are circle jerks for nerds like us, they don't determine real, rerun type legacy. We are still getting X-Files reruns and Star Trek reruns, and Twilight Zone reruns. Think about that.

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Well they won't have those rerun legacies clearly. They're much more serialized. In LOST, if you skip 5 episodes, then you'll have no fricking clue what is going on. Same with GoT. And this is the NetFlix era, to where this wasn't as much of a problem as it was a decade ago.

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The more we start subscription streaming, the more they will have to adapt. In 10 years, if it isn't available to watch in multiple locations that aren't HBO, people won't have access to it.

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But we're on that path though. People are now actively seeking serialized shows and will pay for them.

Game of Thrones by far.

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There's a GoT bubble that apparently people can't see around. It's a pretty good show, by no means is it more popular than TWD (or Lost

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You're just making up stuff at this point. Many of the episodes of last season's GoT averaged around and sometimes over 20M+ viewers. And that's just counting people that have HBO. They are also millions (one episode had an estimated 14M) that pirate every episode as it's by far the most pirated TV show four years running. So where are you getting that it's "not even close to as popular"? You could argue that the TWD is popular but not by much but to say it's not close?

Game Of Thrones

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But I keep watching for some reason anyway

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After every episode of Walking Dead, I wonder why I've just wasted that hour. But I'll still watch the next week.

GOT is worth it just for the music.