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TLJ review SPOILERS

Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:19 pm
Posted by RebelVol
The Sip
Member since Aug 2016
4849 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:19 pm
For starters I'll say that I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan, I have watched the last three solely to "see a good movie" (TLJ was not a good movie). I'm not well versed with the plot lines throughout the originals, backstories, etc. as I said, I watch them simply to see a good movie.

Anyways, it leads me to this review my cousin gave it. He is admittedly a much bigger Star Wars nerd than I am, but in almost all of his points I understood what he was upset about.

quote:

I Have a shite ton of issue with it, too many to list here but I'll list a few of the main ones that I think make this movie a complete piece of shite and worth every bit of criticism it's getting. Not speaking for everyone here but these are also a lot of the issues I see others pointing out too.

One of my main issues is with the portrayal of Luke. In the original trilogy, Luke believes that Vader can be saved. A mass murder of 30ish years who's killed millions of innocents, slaughtered Jedi, killed his wife, etc. can be saved in Luke's eyes, yet he senses a hint of darkness in his nephew and decides to kill him in his sleep? fricking ridiculous. And what about his friends? In Empire Strikes, he risks himself and the fate of the galaxy, abandoning Yoda to save his friends, yet in TLJ (the last Jedi) once it's explained to him that Han is dead, the galaxy is in peril, his sister is about to die while she tries to lead the resistance, Luke is like “lol so?”. Again, fricking ridiculous. It's NOT Luke, it's some bullshite Disney version of him. Also why did he leave a fricking map, which was the ENTIRE plot of the force awakens, if as he says in this movie he just wants to be left alone to die? Which leads me to my next issue;

Literally all of the interesting plot points and questions that were posed in the force awakes are abandoned in this movie. Who's Rey's parents? Nobody, doesn't matter. Who's Snoke, how is he so powerful and how did he corrupt Kylo? Doesn't matter. Why did Luke's saber call to Rey? Doesn't matter. Why did Maz have Lukes saber to begin with? Who knows. What happened with the Knights of Ren? Doesn't matter. They took every interesting question posed in the force awakens and just said “frick you audience, you get no answers.”

And how about the plot holes? Holy frick. In the force awakens the first order is portrayed as like a terrorist organization. They lose their entire planet, yet a couple week (days?) later they have this enormous fleet and basically control the entire galaxy? Yeah ok. And you mean to tell me the republic doesn't have a single base outside the planets that were destroyed in the force awakens? Again, yeah ok. Why didn't Holdo just tell Poe her plan? It would have eliminated the entire need for the Finn/Rose plot which was a complete waste and unnecessary. And what about when Holdo kamikaze attacked the ship? Thousands of stormtroopers who surrounded Finn and Rose are dead but they're miraculously alive? And Phasma, who was standing right over them, is teleported across the fricking the hanger and is now surrounded by a huge squad? bullshite, lazy arse writing.

Some smaller issues I had; Ackbar didn't get a good death, he was a star wars legend. Leia's Marry Poppins scene was fricking ridiculous, she should have died there. Luke shouldn't have died, period, was done purely for shock value and so Disney could make their own characters with which to sell merchandise with. Chewie just lost Han but that's never mentioned (by anyone) and is now being bossed around by some girl he barely knows? Stupid. Benicio Del Toro's character was stupid, this isn't a fricking marvel movie. Which brings up humor, omg the humor was painfully cringeworthy, in addition to turning Hux (who was kind of a bad arse in TFA) into a bumbling idiot. Again par for the course with Disney on that shite.

Finally how about the opening sequence. The one where ships drop bombs in space. Drop bombs. In space.........it's fricking space, bombs don't fricking drop there's no god damn fricking gravity.....frick this movie.


Are y'alls thoughts about the same as his? Vastly different?



TL;DR

My cousin takes issues with everything from Luke's death to gravity to Disney fricking the franchise up to plot points left unanswered from TFA
Posted by WicKed WayZ
Louisiana Forever
Member since Sep 2011
34164 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:22 pm to
Posted by Breesus
Unplug
Member since Jan 2010
69549 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:25 pm to
Posted by GeauxLSUGeaux
1 room down from Erin Andrews
Member since May 2004
25670 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:27 pm to
Tell your cousin he’s a racist sexist old fanboy hater who’s just jealous that Rian Johnson shite all over his version of Star Wars regardless of the fact that he made a very flawed film it was entertaining and frick you
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77261 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:29 pm to
All of those things are true. Every one is a problem.

The humor is one of my biggest issues.

I’m starting to hate the MCU because of how it’s impacting other action movies.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 4:29 pm
Posted by DieDaily
West of a white house
Member since Mar 2010
2649 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:33 pm to
Posted by Sneaky__Sally
Member since Jul 2015
12364 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:40 pm to
I'll just start with the easiest one as an example because people are picking this apart because it wasn't what they wanted to see. The movie didn't follow the typical archetypal plotlines but to some that may have been refreshing.

Why do Rey's parents have to be someone? The nobody with unknown parents who turn out to be the king or some other super important is the most standard archetype there is. It wasn't pointless because Rey wanted her lineage to be important, wanted her parents to have a reason for leaving her behind and it was a factor in her character development when she found out that her parents were nothing.

I've also said I don't have the same level of issue with Luke's character for reasons stated in other threads.

The excessive one liners, cheesy sentiment, over the top acting and seemingly unnecessary aspects (like the casino world trip) are all valid. But a lot of the other stuff seems to be piling on by pointing things out, like random plot holes, which could be pointed out in a lot of the star wars films people actually liked because those also had major plot holes. Its about impossible to create a world building style series, particularly with movie which can't explain a whole lot, without having what seem to be plot holes. If they tried to outline every little thing the movie would be longer and impossible to sit through and watch.

Did the movie have problems - absolutely.

Was it as bad as a lot of people are saying - I don't think so but that is a personal opinion.

The ever growing list of shite people are piling on is largely comprised of stuff people would have done differently to make a typical star wars movie that is comfortable and easy to digest.

I'm not saying it was a great movie, hell I'm not even saying it was a good movie as that is all personal opinion. But the mob justice tar and feather reaction is starting to blow my mind a little bit. You can pick apart most every scifi and fantasy series if you want - it is also pretty easy to pick apart GOT which seems to be universally loved.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 4:45 pm
Posted by HailToTheChiz
Back in Auburn
Member since Aug 2010
54708 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

Did the movie have problems - absolutely.

Was it as bad as a lot of people are saying - I don't think so but that is a personal opinion.

The ever growing list of shite people are piling on is largely comprised of stuff people would have done differently to make a typical star wars movie that is comfortable and easy to digest.

I'm not saying it was a great movie, hell I'm not even saying it was a good movie as that is all personal opinion. But the mob justice tar and feather reaction is starting to blow my mind a little bit. You can pick apart most every scifi and fantasy series if you want - it is also pretty easy to pick apart GOT which seems to be universally loved.



All of this. Spot on.

And GOT has some terrible writing too. Let's be honest. If this movie turned out the way many "wanted" they would still bitch about it being so predictable.

I enjoyed it for what it was....a movie set in the Star Wars universe
Posted by GeauxLSUGeaux
1 room down from Erin Andrews
Member since May 2004
25670 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:48 pm to
I’ll put it to you this way. IMHO, this film is on par with AotC. AotC actually had people that liked it, as it had a higher audience score than TLJ. Now imagine if AotC had a 93% critic score with ALL of its horrible plot holes and crappy character development and B plot lines that bring the movie nowhere ( much of the same problems this movie has ). That’s where we are right now. This is about the same level of WTF as the new Ghostbusters film in that it’s not horrible but not nearly as good as they make it out to be either.
This post was edited on 12/20/17 at 4:49 pm
Posted by AggieDub14
Oil Baron
Member since Oct 2015
15180 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:51 pm to
quote:

yet he senses a hint of darkness in his nephew


It wasn't a hint. It was the most powerful darkness Luke had ever sensed.

quote:

Luke is like “lol so?”


Luke feels like a complete failure. He is on the island to die alone.

quote:

Who's Rey's parents?


I called that it was noone from the start.

quote:

Why did Luke's saber call to Rey?


The force has a will of its own.

quote:

Thousands of stormtroopers who surrounded Finn and Rose are dead but they're miraculously alive? And Phasma, who was standing right over them, is teleported across the fricking the hanger and is now surrounded by a huge squad?


This was a big issue for me actually.

quote:

Which brings up humor, omg the humor was painfully cringeworthy


It was funnier the 2nd time when you expect it.

quote:

Drop bombs. In space.........it's fricking space, bombs don't fricking drop there's no god damn fricking gravity


Pretty sure a massive object (like a dreadnaught) would actually have it's own gravity in space.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:53 pm to
I swear to God Rose better be killed in the first 5 fricking minutes of Episode IX, or just ignore her entirely. 10 seconds of screen time where Kylo Ren cuts her in half is the most I want.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:55 pm to
quote:

Why do Rey's parents have to be someone? The nobody with unknown parents who turn out to be the king or some other super important is the most standard archetype there is. It wasn't pointless because Rey wanted her lineage to be important, wanted her parents to have a reason for leaving her behind and it was a factor in her character development when she found out that her parents were nothing.



That is the one thing people have issue with in this movie that I don't. I'm more fricking curious how Maz got the lightsaber and why it called to Rey... Did it just want to get destroyed? Just nonsense.

quote:

You can pick apart most every scifi and fantasy series if you want - it is also pretty easy to pick apart GOT which seems to be universally loved.


There are parts of this movie that are every bit as stupid as the prequels. Nothing like that in TFA. The only dumb thing it's guilty of is characters just happening to run into each other, but I can make due with that.
Posted by GeauxLSUGeaux
1 room down from Erin Andrews
Member since May 2004
25670 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

It wasn't a hint. It was the most powerful darkness Luke had ever sensed.


Yet they make a point to show that he can’t kill his mother? Or that he admitted in TFA that he was feeling himself being pulled toward the light? Let’s face it, anything that happened in TFA means absolute jack sh*t from here. A Trilogy is supposed to mean continuity of a story from the first movie to the third. This one not only ruined the first movie it undoubtedly left absolutely nowhere for them to go in the third movie.
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
23529 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:08 pm to
quote:

TL;DR

Here's the thing- your cousin does list a lengthy amount of issues that vary from annoyingly lazy, all the way to offensive to the viewer.

And he doesn't address probably half the problems people have with it.

Everything you list, PLUS-
the leadership of the Resistance literally being a group of women who take turns telling Poe "shut up and sit down, you dumb man". They serve no other purpose, they make no other plans. They just shite on his plans and on him, and then lord their authority over him.

Rose- she giggles and can't even speak when she meets Finn, despite their being in battle and apparently in trouble. She then serves as the voice that tells us that all the rich and wealthy capitalists are scum. The movie shows us this, and emphasizes it; see? Rich. Therefore, scum. Awful. Can't be any redeeming quality here.
And then she proceeds to stop Finn from having an impactful death that would legitimize his role, which has been under fire since the last movie. At least he sacrificed himself at the end... no, wait, he isn't allowed to do that either. The heroic act he attempts (any heroic action a male attempts in this film) is condemned, and then lectured against onscreen. Poe does something cool- bad. Finn does something heroic- no, that is wrong.

Luke is not only acting in a non-heroic way, they put in the weirdest, most disgusting scene we've ever seen in Star Wars, the milking, to further destroy his appeal.

The Resistance isn't just annoyingly run, but they utterly fail at every step, and are massacred. And then, left without aid or assistance when they call for help.

It's like not only has the movie been commandeered to lecture us, it's also been broken so that we can't have it anymore.
Posted by Josh Fenderman
Ron Don Volante's PlayPen
Member since Jul 2011
7044 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:18 pm to
Your cousin posts here, or reads this board. Or maybe this board is getting most of its gripes from the same place your cousin does. That post is almost verbatim what people are posting here.
Posted by RebelVol
The Sip
Member since Aug 2016
4849 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:18 pm to
I swear. Rose pissed me the frick off, if she's in the next one it should be for her to get a quick death.
Posted by Sneaky__Sally
Member since Jul 2015
12364 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:19 pm to
Sorry but I totally disagree - the Rey / Kylo scenes alone are much better than anything in AotC (I haven't watched it while actually paying attention in forever but can't think of any major redeeming qualities), particularly the scene in Snoke's throne room, as well as them delving more into the nature of the force and the universe. In addition, Luke's story arch and character development within this single movie and the unique theme / tone of failure and desperation also makes it much better than AotC - again to my eyes at least.
Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:20 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/27/23 at 8:10 pm
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
23529 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:21 pm to
quote:

quote:
Drop bombs. In space.........it's fricking space, bombs don't fricking drop there's no god damn fricking gravity


Pretty sure a massive object (like a dreadnaught) would actually have it's own gravity in space.

While the space scenes in Star Wars have always been a bit annoying (I wasn't impressed with the air masks in ESB), the "dreadnaught has gravity" reply doesn't make sense either.

The dreadnaught doesn't begin to have the mass of, say, the moon. Go watch the astronauts playing on the moon, sometime. Things fall in slow motion. The bombs would do the same thing, casually float down inch by inch, but much slower than moon stuff.
And that's neglecting the stupidity of the entire design of the bombers; you have someone down there to open the doors, and to drop the bombs. But, why then do you have the bomb release on a box not attached to anything? Couldn't you just mount a camera at the bomb bay, to ensure it's open, and put a switch on a panel in the cockpit? I mean, the pilot won't be flying then anyway, as they have to be just so in order to drop the bombs.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45335 posts
Posted on 12/20/17 at 5:21 pm to
quote:

Was it as bad as a lot of people are saying - I don't think so but that is a personal opinion.


It was as bad as some are saying, but it isn’t the worst film of all time like people are making it out to be. There is a decent film in there somewhere, but is layered behind a wall of shite.
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