How was the nature of the Force discussed? "it's all around you, it connects everything".

Ben (Obi wan) said that in the first movie. Nothing further was discussed, other than Luke vaguely saying the Jedi were wrong and full of hubris (but that doesn't address the actual Force).

ESB- Yoda teaches Luke to elevate a rock, and he had figured out how to pull a lightsaber. He couldn't lift the X Wing, Yoda did it and explained how Luke failed.

Rey; she's training alone with her staff, and she decides to swap to a lightsaber. Ok, become more proficient with the more effective weapon. It's clear she is skilled at being a warrior.
But
At what point does she grasp how to elevate every boulder at the exit? That's a level beyond anything Luke showed at least until Jedi, and let's be clear here- Rey is about 1 week into knowing she can use the Force.
Is it because she believes, something Luke was told was his flaw? Seriously.

And while it's interesting that she explores the Dark Side in the cave, what is gained? Luke rejects that and doesn't explain anything. She just sees herself repetitively, and herself as her parent. So she is alone; but we're told in ESB that the Dark Side shows you your fear. Luke becomes Vader, Rey is alone.
Yoda says you only find that which you bring in (ESB again, there is NOTHING in this movie to guide us), so that means- Rey fears being alone, so she is shown alone.

Oh, my brother watched it and mentioned something...
if Leia's suddenly been awakened into the Force, why doesn't SHE go after Snoke? He took her son, there should be some maternal justice in her heart. She sent Han to his death for their kid, and now she's written him off just as she's showing great innate power.

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Posted by Sneaky__Sally

Member since Jul 2015

12364 posts

Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:41 pm to Scoob

So I typed out my initial thoughts on that scene but my computer is keeps just showing the post I was replying too for aome reason.

Essentially the dark hole showed her the truth that her parents don't matter, which is also what she was afraid of. The juxtaposition of Kylos lineage to Rey's, when she appears to be more naturally gifted which goes against what we typically know and see, is some of what I meant about the nature of the force - and that may have been a bad term, as I liked the various discussions and ideas about the force and the Jedi religion and some of the philosophical / thematic ideas presented by other force users. Such as yoda saying the burden of the master thing and then kylo killing snoke. Or kylo telling Rey to let go of the past and then that is what the many of the resistance do at the end with the goal of moving forward and being the spark that ignites or whatever bullshite as well as Luke letting go of the past Jedi failures to move forward. Rey needed to let go of her hope to find out her hope s and fears regarding her parents to help her reach her potential.

These are just my thoughts, I'm sure many will disagree and I'm sure I'm wrong about some things. But the movie presenting those kind of thematic things had me more interested and thinking more in a Star Wars movie than I had in a long time.

Easiest way to put that scene to me is that she was looking for answers in her parents but she what she needs she can only find if she looks inward. Let go of her past hurt move forward with confidence in herself.

This post was edited on 12/21/17 at 7:37 am

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Posted by Scoob

Near Exxon

Member since Jun 2009

23536 posts

Posted on 12/20/17 at 10:54 pm to Sneaky__Sally

but that isn't exploring the Force, that is merely rehashing the scene from Degobah in the tree. Yoda said the Dark Side shows you your fears, and seeks to ensnare you with them.

The cave, then, shows Rey her fear, being alone.
And if you use Star Wars logic, it shows her that to get to her.
And she's now open to talking to Kylo, just to not be alone... so that's the work of the Dark Side in play.

And if you follow basic Star Wars history, she's now in SERIOUS danger... she's not wise or trained enough to reject the seduction of the Dark Side (in her case, seeking to not be alone).
And from what we've seen, once you embrace it, you don't get away. You get moments of freedom (Vader killing Palpatine, Kylo killing Snoke)... but those are moments. Vader dies, no further time. Can't make any judgement on that.
Kylo survives, ... and within minutes is ready to rule the First Order and continues his vengeance against his family. No redemption, no eye opening, just fulfilling the Sith heritage of apprentice killing the master, and continuing the cycle. For all his talk of killing the past, he's completely in line with all previous Sith relationships, and still driven by hate.

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Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu

Central, LA

Member since Jan 2013

22543 posts

Posted on 12/20/17 at 11:15 pm to Scoob

Alright just got out

I enjoyed about 45% of the movie
Kylo and Rey stuff was good.

The lightspeed kamikaze was really cool although it kinda shite on old movies.

Snoke needed to be snuffed out.

Everything Finn and Rose was super dumb.

I want to punch Rose when she stopped Finn. That would have been a great redeeming part for him.

Leia part in space was corny.

Why would laser shots need to be lobbed?

Why couldn't they look out of the windows to see the transports?

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