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Message
re: The Walking Dead Season Finale
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:03 am to CocomoLSU
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:03 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
What courtesy are we not extending?
you are preventing discussion of things THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED. I have brought up complaining about the prison discussion -- it was the final establishing shot. Just knowledge of how TV works tells you its important.
I think it stifles discussion and people have to walk on eggshells. I try not to reference the comics when discussing the show because I do view them as wholly distinct. Andrea and Carol are completely different charatcers, the farm plotline barely happened and was a major focus here, Sophia literally didn't happen, Darryl is a major character and not in the books, the arc of Shane is completely different, the characterization of Otis and Patricia are wildly different. It's simply not the same thing. They are similar, but the TV show has deviated wildly to the point I view them as wholly distinct entities. I don't think you can bring over knowledge from the books because it's not sure to be right. The TV show is way too different. Even the character of Rick is wildly different in the two mediums. Comic Rick and TV Rick would make different decisions in the same situation. Knowledge of the book is worthless most of the time for understanding the TV show.
3
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:14 am to Baloo
I suppose it is different for me
I have read the comics as well as one novel
The TV show is so different in the chain of events and characterization that the comics don't really seem to spoil anything for me.
I do try in these threads to make no mention of anything in the comic arc because some folks seem very sensitive to it.
Sometimes it does feel silly having to refrain from commenting on something but I just mark it down to playing by the "rules"
I have read the comics as well as one novel
The TV show is so different in the chain of events and characterization that the comics don't really seem to spoil anything for me.
I do try in these threads to make no mention of anything in the comic arc because some folks seem very sensitive to it.
Sometimes it does feel silly having to refrain from commenting on something but I just mark it down to playing by the "rules"
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:15 am to busbeepbeep
quote:
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quote:
In the ZA, I'd take either.
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In normal life, I'd take either.
Well yeah, but I'm making the assumption that in the ZA my wife's slow arse would have been eaten by this point, thus freeing me up to take either.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:23 am to HeadyMurphey
quote:
think the point is why mention it if it is not mentioned in the show? This was supposed to be a non spoiler thread. I agree that it doesn't change anything, but why mention it?
Anything seen in The Walking Dead, or the Talking Dead, should be considered fair game. Its totally public knowledge. I'll keep interviews and what not in a separate category. Those could go either way. They are certainly public knowledge, but they could contain spoiler material. It happens.
All that being said, the books and the TV series should be kept separate, and it shouldn't be hard for those that have read the books (I haven't). If the thread is not about the books, then don't talk about the books. Its that simple. Make a comics thread if you like. No problemo.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:28 am to Baloo
My biggest issue is that we spend more time debating whether something is a spoiler than we do discussing the show.
I have no problem with knowing there is a character called the Governor or knowing that ninja chick has a name or knowing that what I thought was a prison really was a prison. I do have a problem with the fact that I knew Shane would die and come back as a zombie without being bitten and that Carl would likely put him down. I didn't seek out that information and don't remember where it came from, but I knew it all before it happened.
I have no problem with knowing there is a character called the Governor or knowing that ninja chick has a name or knowing that what I thought was a prison really was a prison. I do have a problem with the fact that I knew Shane would die and come back as a zombie without being bitten and that Carl would likely put him down. I didn't seek out that information and don't remember where it came from, but I knew it all before it happened.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:36 am to Baloo
quote:
-- Rick’s final speech was just perfect. Instead of justifying his murder of Shane in rational terms (“the dude was crazy and tried to kill me” kind of works), he instead justifies it in the most horrifying way possible – “I let him lead me deep in the woods, and then I killed him because he kept pushing me”. He then sets himself up as dictator in the best way possible (there’s the door, you damn whiners). The only person who can possibly oppose him is Darryl…
A thought on Rick- If you noticed Rick's diction on the farm, he was mimicking Hershel's formal, style of talking. But gradually from the moment leading up to Shane being killed to the season 2 end, Rick's diction has changed to a mixture between Shane and Rick, ie, a hardass leader.
Another way of looking at it, is that at the beginning, Rick was too lawful and Shane was lawless and both men were at odds in the ZA. When the confrontation occured, Rick morphed into the perfect combination of a hardass leader.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:47 am to Baloo
quote:
I have not said it's okay to spoil whatever. I said you should use common courtesy. But I think the demands of the anti-spoiler crowd go beyond courtesy and into fanaticism. It cripples debate. For example, the writers threw in the line "The Governor called" intentionally. That means something. To expect people to at least not make note of it is just stifling the discussion. It's not a spoiler so long as you don't go into actual plot. But the line actually happened on the actual show, it is fair game to specualte if it means something or is just a nod and a wink to the comics.
You did say that you don't care about minor spoilers. Well, others do. And you are no more correct than they are in that regard. So in a thread clearly marked "NO SPOILERS," and in a setting (this board) where there are multiple other threads created specifically for that kinda of discussion, the "common courtesy" is to leave this thread untainted from spoiler talk, even minor ones.
I understand your "crippling debate" argument, but I don't think it applies here. Because this thread isn't for "future speculation based on what we know from the comics or spoiler sites." It's for "future speculation from what we know from the show and only the show."
And sure, they threw a line about a Governor character in there (I don't even remember that to be honest, but I'll take your word for it), and that's all fine and good. But what that should lead to in THIS thread is a discussion about who or what the governor is. But instead, I already know that the governor is a HUGE character upcoming and that he will play a huge role in the future. And I know that because it was spoiled for me in previous "show discussion only" threads. And that's what I have a problem with. It's not like I was stumbling around TWD sites or spoiler sites and came across that information...I only post in show discussion on here, and yet that information was disseminated by the "we've read the comics and know what's coming in the future" crowd.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:49 am to HeadyMurphey
quote:
I think the point is why mention it if it is not mentioned in the show? This was supposed to be a non spoiler thread. I agree that it doesn't change anything, but why mention it?
This.
Knowing that that character is a woman, or even her name, isn't that big of a deal to me. Sure, I'd rather not know anything about her, but that particular doesn't particularly ruin much for me. Now, it may for someone else, but not me. The whole thing though is that why even mention it at all in a thread that wants to be ignorant of future information when there are clearly threads for that type of discussion..?
Getting into the "well, this spoiler isn't a big deal, but that one is.." thing is a very slippery slope. So why can't it be as simple as "no spoilers" (which it clearly says anyway)?
This post was edited on 3/20/12 at 8:51 am
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:52 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
And sure, they threw a line about a Governor character in there (I don't even remember that to be honest, but I'll take your word for it), and that's all fine and good. But what that should lead to in THIS thread is a discussion about who or what the governor is. But instead, I already know that the governor is a HUGE character upcoming and that he will play a huge role in the future. And I know that because it was spoiled for me in previous "show discussion only" threads. And that's what I have a problem with. It's not like I was stumbling around TWD sites or spoiler sites and came across that information...I only post in show discussion on here, and yet that information was disseminated by the "we've read the comics and know what's coming in the future" crowd
Knowing about "the governor" is not a spoiler. When the director makes a big announcement about an actor to play a character it's not a spoiler to know a major character will soon be introduced.
You are way too sensitive about supposed spoilers. As Coloradobengal stated anything talked about on the show and Talking Dead is fair game.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:58 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Knowing that that character is a woman, or even her name, isn't that big of a deal to me. Sure, I'd rather not know anything about her, but that particular doesn't particularly ruin much for me. Now, it may for someone else, but not me. The whole thing though is that why even mention it at all in a thread that wants to be ignorant of future information when there are clearly threads for that type of discussion..?
I'm against spoilers, but I disagree with you here. Some people are coming in and flexing their nerddom because the comic book they've read for 20 years finally has relevance in the real world, and I think they should stop trying to impress people. However, I have never, EVER read the comics, but I inferred that the hooded figure was a woman (can't tell you why, it just seemed that way), and that the building was a prison. Would you have been offended if I had posted that honest speculation here, and turned out to be right?
If you don't want to "know" anything that hasnt already been deliberately spelled out on screen, then you really shouldn't even be discussing the show with anyone. Once again, I know your frustration is with people who are faux-speculating, but you do have to understand that when people do honestly speculate, there's a chance that they could be right, and that would then be a "spoiler."
Posted on 3/20/12 at 8:59 am to Baloo
quote:
you are preventing discussion of things THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED
How so? We've seen a shot of the prison, so we know that it will be a part of next season. So let's speculate about what will happen there. The thing is, I can speculate with someone who hasn't read the comics, and it is pure, uneducated guesswork. But if people who have read the comics are discussing it, they already know some of the things that may happen at the prison, so the converstaion is completely different.
quote:
I try not to reference the comics when discussing the show because I do view them as wholly distinct.
quote:
They are similar, but the TV show has deviated wildly to the point I view them as wholly distinct entities.
quote:
Knowledge of the book is worthless most of the time for understanding the TV show.
I just don't buy that line of thinking though. The show is CLEARLY based on the comics. Like I said, just because it may not follow them letter for letter doesn't mean the comics aren't source material. Kudos to the creators of the show for at least trying to make it a little different. But the point remains that anything in the comics is obviously fair game for the show. And I've never read the comics, but the list of things I posted on the previous page are all things that appeared in both the comics and the show. And I know that because of the comic-readers saying it in the threads. There have been LOTS of things confirmed on the show that have happened in the books. And "guessing" on what happens on the show when you have prior knowledge of the universe of information the show is based on isn't simply guessing for the sake of discussion...there's a big difference between "I wonder if this will happen next" and "I wonder if this will happen next because that's what happens in the comics."
Clearly we won't agree on this though, as wel are almost going in circles. So can we just honor the OP request of no spoilers (at all) in this thread? It seems like the easiest and simplest way to appease both parties (since readers have their own threads to post in).
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:03 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Anything seen in The Walking Dead, or the Talking Dead, should be considered fair game. Its totally public knowledge. I'll keep interviews and what not in a separate category. Those could go either way. They are certainly public knowledge, but they could contain spoiler material. It happens.
All that being said, the books and the TV series should be kept separate, and it shouldn't be hard for those that have read the books (I haven't). If the thread is not about the books, then don't talk about the books. Its that simple. Make a comics thread if you like. No problemo.
Doesn't Talking Dead discuss the comics a good bit though? Seems like Chris Hardwick has a hard on for any-and-all-things-TWD. Someone said they were discussing "Michonne" on TTD after the show on Sunday...that would seem to belong in your second paragraph group.
quote:
My biggest issue is that we spend more time debating whether something is a spoiler than we do discussing the show.
It's what usually happens at the end of the episode threads. People discuss the show, someone drops hints (or straight up spoilers), people get pissed, and then it's this. I'm sure there is lots of good discussion for 20 pages of the thread.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:11 am to CaptSpaulding
quote:
I'm against spoilers, but I disagree with you here. Some people are coming in and flexing their nerddom because the comic book they've read for 20 years finally has relevance in the real world, and I think they should stop trying to impress people. However, I have never, EVER read the comics, but I inferred that the hooded figure was a woman (can't tell you why, it just seemed that way), and that the building was a prison. Would you have been offended if I had posted that honest speculation here, and turned out to be right?
If you don't want to "know" anything that hasnt already been deliberately spelled out on screen, then you really shouldn't even be discussing the show with anyone. Once again, I know your frustration is with people who are faux-speculating, but you do have to understand that when people do honestly speculate, there's a chance that they could be right, and that would then be a "spoiler."
Absolutely there is a difference. Just like the first few threads when Enigma was "guessing" at what happened, and people were getting pissed, and then he just played it off like he had no idea. People backed off after that. And then he did it again. And again. And was posting in the spoiler threads and comic threads, and then turning around and posting in these threads like he was smart and was simply "connecting the dots that we saw on the show." People had a huge problem with that, me included. It's dishonest and unfair to people who honestly have no idea what's potential information for the future.
I also thought the hooded person was a woman. And I didn't even really notice she had tits (:ashamed:)...something just felt like a woman about her for some reason. And I thought it was fairly obvious it was a prison as well (though I wasn't completely sure).
I can't tell someone not to post in here. But I can try to read the thread more carefully and try to avoid spoilers, as well as skip certain peoples' posts altogether. It just kinda blows that I have to do that in a thread very specifically meant to not contain spoilers.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:11 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
Doesn't Talking Dead discuss the comics a good bit though? Seems like Chris Hardwick has a hard on for any-and-all-things-TWD. Someone said they were discussing "Michonne" on TTD after the show on Sunday...that would seem to belong in your second paragraph group.
They haven't discussed the comics in any detail at all, that I have seen. What happened with Michone was completely benign. They announced the actress that was playing the part. (Frankly, I would have had her pull the hood back after killing the walker, if I was writing the script.)
The comics come into play in Talking Dead, only because comics fans will ask questions about how something might be handled in the show. But they are very very careful about it, from what I have seen anyway.
There is no way anyone that discusses the show with a fanbase, would have not found out that it was a woman, in the ensuing discussion around the water cooler after the finale. It's simply not possible. Someone would have said "Boobies!" Or something that. (Hell, I thought it might be Morgan under the hood.
) But if you rewind it, its obvious its a woman's stature and body. In any event... I feel that Talking Dead does a good job of discussing what happened in that night's episode, and the character and story arcs, and speculating on the future, but they really don't do spoilers. They've been really good about that as far as I can tell.
The true spoilers are when people that watch the show, but haven't read the books, come in here and ask a question, or post a speculation, and then some fan-boy comic reader has to pipe up with "You 're right" or "You're way off" or try to impress everyone with their knowledge about the differences between the show and the graphic novels.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:16 am to coloradoBengal
honestly, I thought it might have been the governor person everyone kept rambling on about when she first appeared and then I came here and the comic people were going absolutely ape shite for this michonne and posting her comic book pic 'OMG SHE'S SO BADASS!!!! YOU GUYS WILL SEE"
it doesn't really bother me, but I could see someone being annoyed with it.
it doesn't really bother me, but I could see someone being annoyed with it.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:19 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
They haven't discussed the comics in any detail at all, that I have seen.
quote:
The comics come into play in Talking Dead, only because comics fans will ask questions about how something might be handled in the show. But they are very very careful about it, from what I have seen anyway.
quote:
In any event... I feel that Talking Dead does a good job of discussing what happened in that night's episode, and the character and story arcs, and speculating on the future, but they really don't do spoilers. They've been really good about that as far as I can tell.
I just avoid it completely. Partly because I don't want to hear too much, and partly because Chris Hardwick's gayness for the show in his little promos during the show piss me off.
quote:
(Frankly, I would have had her pull the hood back after killing the walker, if I was writing the script.)
Agreed, and I was kinda expecting her to as well.
quote:
The true spoilers are when people that watch the show, but haven't read the books, come in here and ask a question, or post a speculation, and then some fan-boy comic reader has to pipe up with "You 're right" or "You're way off" or try to impress everyone with their knowledge about the differences between the show and the graphic novels.
I agree with that as well. And because that has happened so often, people are leery when others start posting guesses that are a little too good. Maybe they're truly good guessers and it's not fair...who knows. But it's gotten to this point because of all of the winks, nods,
's posted at certain statements, or straight up information posted from the comic-readers crowd. And I fully admit that there are several comic-readers who post in these threads and do a great job of refraining from posting information not from the show. I appreciate those people because they realize that their knowledge would lead them to not simply "guess at what's coming next." Props to those guys IMO.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:22 am to BilJ
And as far as the prison is concerned, that was an unmistakeable image in the final shot. My 15y old daughter called it in like a second.
That's not a speculation or a spoiler its just 20/20 eyesight.
That's not a speculation or a spoiler its just 20/20 eyesight.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:27 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
Frankly, I would have had her pull the hood back after killing the walker, if I was writing the script.)
Supposedly they couldn't have her pull off her hood because it was a stand-in......the real actress who will play the role in season 3 wasn't used in this shot. Saw that on one of the WD sites.
This post was edited on 3/20/12 at 9:28 am
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:30 am to coloradoBengal
quote:
The true spoilers are when people that watch the show, but haven't read the books, come in here and ask a question, or post a speculation, and then some fan-boy comic reader has to pipe up with "You 're right" or "You're way off" or try to impress everyone with their knowledge about the differences between the show and the graphic novels.
I don't get the "impress everyone" thing. I saw two big spoilers in this thread and I have read every page. Both of which were direct responses to questions and were clearly tagged. The person asking wanted the spoilers and we have no IM function, so...
Secondly, this isn't Game of Thrones. That show follows the book to a T, and is easily spoiled. Hell most of us know about a "red wedding", and many other plot points, because people discuss the books.
But in the comics of TWD, sue there is a farm, and a prision. Sure Carl shot Shane, but that was in issue #2. They are nothing a like. Comic readers had no idea at all what Jenner had said as there was no Jenner in the books. Yet Cocomo still feels like Enigma ruined the whole show by saying he thought Jenner said what he did.
Lets be honestm there was only two things he could have said.
#1 Lori's pregnant, which would have made no sense, as Rick's reaction when he found out was total shock and disbelief.
#2 "We are all infected"
Yet this one point is this guys biggest point of complaining here.
Sure don't say spoilers, but the name Michone? or the Govenor? That is all over the web as casting is being done. The prison? Obviously we saw a prison.
It's hard to discuss some things on here, because some are overly sensitive. Then the spoilers threads spoil too much, so there is no medium.
Posted on 3/20/12 at 9:31 am to CocomoLSU
Some speculation is just going to be spot on because its a post apocalyptic world and classic elements of that include ravagers like Randall's group and tyranical leaders of rogue armies, etc.
Some of these elements just get recycled in these kinds of stories.
The biggest twist away from that so far, is the "everyone is infected" thing. And that was defintely spoiled on this board by the comics readers.
Some of these elements just get recycled in these kinds of stories.
The biggest twist away from that so far, is the "everyone is infected" thing. And that was defintely spoiled on this board by the comics readers.
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