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Message
re: The Tiger King (Netflix Docuseries)
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:38 am to Rep520
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:38 am to Rep520
quote:
She clearly bred tigers in the past, and her zoo isn't the palace she claims it is, but the worst part of what Joe and Doc do is breeding for cub shows. She doesn't do that and provides a location for cats that might otherwise be euthanized.
Joe and Doc are disingenous when they say she does the same thing. She operates a zoo, but the breeding and cub shows are the bad part, not just operating a zoo.
Don't buy into her bullshite. Carole is doing nothing more than trying to set herself up as being the lone breeder/owner/merchant of big-cat species in the US.
Are Joe and Doc doing some sleazy shite? Absolutely but at least their sleazy shite is allowing the species to perpetuate. Were Carole not so hell-bent on banning the breeding and sale of big-cat cubs then Doc and Joe (and others like them) would at least have access to other avenues for getting rid of unwanted big cats as they grew out of the safe-and-cuddly stage.
Joe and Doc are definitely not saints, but to try to elevate Carole above them is to be incredibly short-sighted, at best.
This post was edited on 4/7/20 at 12:42 pm
2
Posted on 4/7/20 at 11:50 am to Bard
quote:
Carole is doing nothing more but trying to set herself up as being the lone breeder/owner/merchant of big-cat species in the US.
Are Joe and Doc doing some sleazy shite? Absolutely but at least their sleazy shite is allowing the species to perpetuate.
Joe and Doc don't even claim Carole's bred since the 90's. There are plenty of legit zoos far better than anything Carole, Joe or Doc has. Controlled breeding in a place like the San Diego Zoo goes a lot further, and isn't prohibited.
Joe and Doc aren't breeding to perpetuate the species. They're doing it to produce cubs. At the end of them being cubs, selling a single tiger for 2k to some rando does nothing to perpetuate the species.
Legit zoos aren't buying from Joe and Doc. People who think it's cool to have a tiger until it's fully grown and eating $1,000 a month in meat are buying tigers.
Carole's approach would have legit zoos breeding internally, which is by far the best solution. Breeding to sell is where the major abuses come in.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:18 pm to Corso
quote:
Maybe I missed it but did anybody ever ask Carole how many of those "rescue" animals she's returned to the wild?
I don’t think these tigers are capable of surviving the wild.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:38 pm to Dire Wolf
Yep you're right I didn't think about the cats being basically tamed.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:54 pm to Rep520
quote:
Joe and Doc aren't breeding to perpetuate the species.
They aren't but that's one of the results. Because of them and others like them there are more big cats in the back yards of North America than there are roaming wild in Africa. That's a far higher rate than what the zoos have and don't think for a moment that if the zoos' population started dwindling that they wouldn't call up someone like Doc.
quote:
Carole's approach would have legit zoos breeding internally,
Carole's approach would magically change if there were no other big cats to be "rescued". The one thing she, Joe and Doc all share is their opportunism. She just shrouds hers in the faux reality of trying to say she exists to take down the others.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 12:58 pm to Bard
quote:
Because of them and others like them there are more big cats in the back yards of North America than there are roaming wild in Africa.
That isn't perpetuating the species. A guy with a tiger in his back yard does zilch for the species in the long term. That person just has a tiger until it dies.
To perpetuate the species, you'd have to only be selling to people who have the capacity to keep breeding and caring for animals in captivity, which Joe and Doc clearly aren't doing.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 1:06 pm to Rep520
Disney zoo does better care. Wait. Is Carol sketch too ? She used to breed
Posted on 4/7/20 at 1:15 pm to Boo Krewe
Disney and San Diego zoo are part of AZA, which has zoos and genetic dudes who carefully pick animals to breed at right time with healthiest history
Posted on 4/7/20 at 1:19 pm to Rep520
quote:
That isn't perpetuating the species.
Yes it is. You may not like it, but as long as they aren't inbreeding them then it's every bit as perpetuating the species as it would be if the cats were mating in the wild.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 1:33 pm to Bard
quote:
Yes it is. You may not like it, but as long as they aren't inbreeding them then it's every bit as perpetuating the species as it would be if the cats were mating in the wild.
No it isn't, and it has nothing to do with me liking it or disliking it.
What perpetuates the species is ongoing procreation. When Joe or Doc sells to someone who keeps a tiger in their backyard, that tiger isn't procreating.
In the wild, the tigers born go on to have their own offspring. That perpetuates the species. Domestically, it only happens if the tiger goes to a facility set up to allow for continued breeding over generations.
That's not what Joe and Doc do. They just sell to anyone with money. You don't perpetuate the species, you get a lot of people with a tiger in their yards that just live out their lifespan there.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 3:34 pm to Rep520
quote:
When Joe or Doc sells to someone who keeps a tiger in their backyard, that tiger isn't procreating.
quote:
In the wild, the tigers born go on to have their own offspring. That perpetuates the species. Domestically, it only happens if the tiger goes to a facility set up to allow for continued breeding over generations.
That's not what Joe and Doc do. They just sell to anyone with money. You don't perpetuate the species, you get a lot of people with a tiger in their yards that just live out their lifespan there.
So they are selling them only to those not mating them?
C'mon man.
There wouldn't be so many if Doc and Joe were the only ones doing it and there weren't others doing it as well. Doing it on a continual basis like they have been requires fresh DNA from time to time to keep the lines from developing genetic abnormalities due to inbreeding.
That their cats are procreating and some of those offspring themselves are procreated and so on, that's perpetuation of the species.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 6:15 pm to Bard
Only way to prove either one of you right is to buy a 2k tiger.
If you get a cub, I will gladly take it to Vegas for you.
If you get a cub, I will gladly take it to Vegas for you.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 6:26 pm to Bard
quote:
So they are selling them only to those not mating them?
Do you think there are a lot of non-zoos mating tigers? I don't.
I don't know why a person would want a tiger to have a litter in their home unless they're trying to have a zoo or batshit insane.
Selling to zoos is one thing. That's a good way to build an endangered species. Selling to people who just want tigers...you don't further the species.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 10:32 pm to Rep520
Posted on 4/8/20 at 7:20 am to Bard
quote:
Are Joe and Doc doing some sleazy shite? Absolutely but at least their sleazy shite is allowing the species to perpetuate.
They're euthanizing tigers once they're too big to be cubs (and to be petted) if they can't sell them privately. Nothing about that is "perpetuating" the species in a healthy manner.
And don't get me started on the Doc harem he's got going out there. He's probably trafficking women at this point as well.
This post was edited on 4/8/20 at 7:21 am
Posted on 4/8/20 at 7:49 am to WestCoastAg
It’s been posted.
It’s just that no one is surprised or cares.
It’s just that no one is surprised or cares.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:29 am to Rep520
quote:
This is one reason why I disagree with the people ripping Carole's business.
i agree with you. i also feel the general criticisms (should have focused more on the plight of the tigers, turned a true POS into a folk hero) of the show are valid as well.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 12:22 pm to Bard
quote:
The wife and I just finished E4 last night and she had a pinpoint observation: there's not a single one of the main characters who are likeable after you get to know them.
In any documentary or series there's generally one or two of the main group of characters you like
By the end there are 4 of them IMO.
No legs guy, campaign manager, lost arm s/him, and long hair trainer guy with sunglasses
This post was edited on 4/8/20 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 4/8/20 at 12:26 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 4/8/20 at 12:55 pm to 632627
quote:
i agree with you. i also feel the general criticisms (should have focused more on the plight of the tigers, turned a true POS into a folk hero) of the show are valid as well.
Wait, people who made the show didn’t turn him into a folk hero. Dumb people on the internet did that. The show gives us plenty enough proof to show Joe is a POS.
The biggest problem is many people watch a show like this and act like it’s some scripted movie or tv show. That’s how you end up with people rooting for Joe the same way they would root for Walter White.
If you listen to or read stuff from The Ringer, they constantly treat real life shite like it’s just some scripted soap opera that only exists to give them content.
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