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re: The Last Jedi - The De-Feminized Cut

Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:16 pm to
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77225 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:16 pm to
The biggest issue that now arises from this is that any time intelligent, thinking beings are sent in small ships to destroy a bigger ship, resulting in the deaths of many, the question afterwards will be “why didn’t they just hit it with a ship going light speed?”.

It would save lives.

Any space battles are now pointless, as are the creation of large ships.

What a waste.

The only positive that comes out of this is a cool looking image. That’s it.
This post was edited on 1/16/18 at 6:18 pm
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:30 pm to
quote:

It can't be viewed as an oversight by the original writers. It should be viewed as a hideous oversight by the writers of TLJ.



I blame the script supervisors more than Rian Johnson. This is inexcusable.

1) The story has no central protagonist or even really a deuteragonist. Really no villain either when you can rightly point at Poe or Holdo as being the actual antagonists of the movie. Next to Jar Jar this is the biggest problem with Episode I, so how the frick did this get past them? It's sloppy as frick.

2) You can remove (as this cut did) an hour or more from the script. People bitch about the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (ie: 11 hours) as being 30 minutes too long. OK, we introduced 25 characters in that and all of the characters are appropriately fleshed out, so you might need an extra 30 minutes and none of them can really be removed (and the ones that could were removed). I have no clue what any purpose the new characters served aside from standing in the way of the overall plot.

3) He didn't follow up with really anything JJ set up for him. Kylo completing his training? Nah, frick that I want to spend 30 minutes lecturing horse breeders and jockeys instead of something actually interesting. Luke wanted to eventually be found by leaving a map behind? frick that. Finn having a redemptive arc? Nope, I'm going to have an Asian chick crash into him for doing something a character who should have been Ackbar did minutes earlier. Snoke? Who cares? Rey's parents? A bunch of drunks. Didn't the First Order just get their arse kicked? Nope, they immediately control the universe for no reason.

I do not envy Abrams for what he has to do with Episode IX. Regardless of the story they were trying to tell, these three things escaping a script supervisors desk is ridiculous. They should all be fired. This isn't fricking Transformers where Michael Bay has total control of the franchise.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:33 pm to
quote:

Maybe it was more "efficient" to create a weapon instead of using huge ships as weapons.


Yeah, building a $852,000,000,000,000,000 Death Star was a better idea than just putting a cruise ship in hyperdrive against an entire fleet or planet. Do you know how much material it takes to build a Death Star rather than hundreds of ships?
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37515 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:33 pm to
There are always flaws in science fiction and fantasy universes that a writer creates. But when a new writer comes along they have to make a rational judgement about whether the way the change the universe is a net improvement.

It is rational to think of using a ship at high speed as a weapon. But it is not rational for this technology to have never been used previously in this way if it were possible in this universe.

As discussed before this would have had to be discovered by accident during the development of the technology. It would make the development of the death stars fairly pointless wastes of resources. It would make the ways in which the rebels destroyed the death stars idiotic wastes of life.

This use of warp drives creates multiple problems that make the prior trilogies idiotic. Most likely this was understood by RJ and just an extension of his apparent disdain for the affection others had for Star Wars. He made the central hero (Luke) pathetic. He made the Emperor and Vader less powerful than Snope (before he inexplicably killed him without dramatic resolution), he makes Yoda a fool, and he makes the central weapons and purposes in the OT stupid.

This can not be viewed as benevolence or affection for the universe people loved.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:38 pm to
quote:

It is rational to think of using a ship at high speed as a weapon. But it is not rational for this technology to have never been used previously in this way if it were possible in this universe.



I've always rationalized that in hyperspace you phase through matter not in hyperspace, but destroy yourself in the process.

quote:

He made the Emperor and Vader less powerful than Snope


To be fair, I think Lucas is more the problem here. I've been bitching for a good decade that Yoda and the Emperor shouldn't have lightsabers and be more powerful than that.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
88509 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:49 pm to
quote:

yes, they forced the gender for no reason


Eh, we hadn't seen many female Jedi through 6 movies, certainly none in a prominent role, it was time if for no other reason than for variety.

One of the biggest problems with TLJ is that Rey wasn't developed + disappeared for the last 20 Minutes.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
84652 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

It's also racist,

Of course it is.

Author looks like he’s never met a minority in his life
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22542 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

It is rational to think of using a ship at high speed as a weapon. But it is not rational for this technology to have never been used previously in this way if it were possible in this universe.


I'm going on record to say that I agree that it probably shouldn't have been added. However, it should have been a consideration in the original trilogies that it was a threat and some type of tech can counter.

It is kind of like a thing that we are all thinking should happen but doesn't because it doesn't fit the narrative. An example is bullets not penetrating sheet metal but suddenly does when a character needs to die for the story. It's bad writing on both ends by the original writer not properly writing in believable things and the new one shitting on the old work.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77225 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

Eh, we hadn't seen many female Jedi through 6 movies, certainly none in a prominent role, it was time if for no other reason than for variety.
The problem is that no one had any issues with her being the protagonist in TFA.

The only issue that came up was with her being a “Mary Sue”. That seemed to be explained away at the end of TFA with her just tapping into the “raw force” and it being uncontrolled.

In TLJ, they remove any and all development and make her a literal Mary Sue.

She isn’t even interesting anymore. She is already perfect. There is no development for her. She is boring. She doesn’t need training and she is incorruptible.

People have no problem with well written female characters who exist for other reasons than “let’s add a female character”.

That isn’t hard to comprehend. I don’t see how they don’t understand that concept.
This post was edited on 1/16/18 at 7:05 pm
Posted by LuckyTiger
Top 1% On Onlyfans
Member since Dec 2008
52417 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:07 pm to
quote:

He didn't follow up with really anything JJ set up for him. Kylo completing his training? Nah, frick that I want to spend 30 minutes lecturing horse breeders and jockeys instead of something actually interesting. Luke wanted to eventually be found by leaving a map behind? frick that. Finn having a redemptive arc? Nope, I'm going to have an Asian chick crash into him for doing something a character who should have been Ackbar did minutes earlier. Snoke? Who cares? Rey's parents? A bunch of drunks. Didn't the First Order just get their arse kicked? Nope, they immediately control the universe for no reason.

It really amazes me that what was made was allowed to be made. That no one in a position of authority was able to do anything to prevent this skid mark shitstain smear of a cinematic institution. What does that say about the entire production?
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
64348 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:09 pm to
Hell yeah, sounds like a good man and I'm glad the SJW propaganda websites are rustled by it.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:11 pm to
quote:

The problem is that no one had any issues with her being the protagonist in TFA.

The only issue that came up was with her being a “Mary Sue”. That seemed to be explained away at the end of TFA with her just tapping into the “raw force” and it being uncontrolled.



Yeah, I do think most directors/writers would have gone with a female protagonist for the sequel trilogy since it's an organic and easy way to mix it up. It was probably was probably my second thought after "Oh frick, they're going to ruin it... well the prequels already did, so it can't be any worse." I was wrong.

quote:

In TLJ, they remove any and all development and make her a literal Mary Sue.

She isn’t even interesting anymore. She is already perfect. There is no development for her. She is boring. She doesn’t need training and she is incorruptible.



And she's not even the protagonist nor does she go through any struggle in that movie. She goes through far more in TFA. She just is briefly trained by a weirdo, briefly decides to go along with Kylo Ren and then just decides to stop.... and at the end she's perfect. What a bunch of shite. How did this get past the script supervisor of even mediocre ability?
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
64348 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:18 pm to
quote:

And she's not even the protagonist nor does she go through any struggle in that movie. She goes through far more in TFA. She just is briefly trained by a weirdo, briefly decides to go along with Kylo Ren and then just decides to stop.... and at the end she's perfect. What a bunch of shite. How did this get past the script supervisor of even mediocre ability?


And in that scene where she faces the "darkness" in that hole or whatever on Luke's island and Luke says, "you didn't even try to resist it!", she has almost no emotion, its as if she hardly even notices that she was being tempted by something dark or sinister. I guess its possible they could reveal later that a seed of darkness was planted in that moment, but that would also contradict the rest of TLJ after that moment.

When it comes down to it, that moment on the island was to me simply a moment of "Oh look how powerful she is that she just rolls over dark temptations without batting an eye". Which was completely uninteresting and quite anti-climactic.

Name one thing Rey screwed up in either of the movies? I can't think of anything she did that wasn't considered the right move or fantastic. As for Luke, he was pretty much kind of cowering to start off in A New Hope, he was introduced to everything and just sort of sat back and learned about the lay of the galaxy while doing what he could when the situation presented itself.
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22542 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:19 pm to
quote:

But it is not rational for this technology to have never been used previously in this way if it were possible in this universe.


Maybe it's the "force" awakens? Force being "ma"

I chuckled to myself
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
88509 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:20 pm to
Yeah TLJ royally screwed Rey

I thought it was going to be the KOTR story where the reason all that happened is bc she had prior training with Luke and subsequently had her memory wiped/false memory implanted.

Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:20 pm to
Sounds way better than rian johnson’s Movie
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

I thought it was going to be the KOTR story where the reason all that happened is bc she had prior training with Luke and subsequently had her memory wiped/false memory implanted.



Yeah, my lead theory going into it was that Kylo Ren had abducted her, didn't want to bring her to Snoke, knew she was trained/gifted enough in the Force to survive Jakku, and then dropped her off there with a mind wipe. He seemed pretty distressed when he was informed that a girl had BB-8.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
37515 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:39 pm to
You seem to tacitly admit that the use of warp as a weapon had to be impossible for other technological reasons (star wars warp defense for example).

That seems obvious. Otherwise the previous trilogies become nonsensical at crucial points.
Posted by PowerTool
The dark side of the road
Member since Dec 2009
23223 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 7:59 pm to
quote:

quote:
Some guy made a sexist 46-minute cut of 'The Last Jedi' by editing out the women — and it's awful

quote:

The new edit of the movie is part of a sexist and racist backlash towards "The Last Jedi" by "Star Wars" fans




Author:


quote:

Jacob is a reporter at INSIDER, where he covers digital culture and pop culture.

He's also written for GQ, The Awl, The New Republic, Entertainment Weekly, Time, and Modern Farmer. Jacob is allergic to cats.


Of course this "guy" wrote this article.


Older version of :

Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
64348 posts
Posted on 1/16/18 at 9:30 pm to
If you even look at the video game EA's Star Wars: Battlefront 2 it has a female protagonist as the main story line that pretty much saves the entire galaxy.
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