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re: Sharp Objects
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:39 pm to cas4t
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:39 pm to cas4t
quote:It's pretty clear judging by Amma's medical file that she built up a tolerance to Adora's cocktail syrup.
context is important. Thinking she may be poisoned or being over dosed by her mom through, idk, a cocktial of drugs is one thing. Knowingly taking rat poison is another. It makes all the difference.
But all in all, you're missing the point that Camille was supposed to make these bad decisions. She has severe mental issues. Not once in this show has she really made a great decision.
Camille underestimated the effect that this would have on her (She wasn't able to walk or scream when KC showed up at the door).
Furthermore, her entire plan was to get Amma out of this house because she felt guilty about her first sister dying under Adora's watch. She felt that if she didn't reject Adora's cocktails as a child that her other sister might have lived.
It's one of the reasons why Camille was so heartbroken during this scene:
0
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:50 pm to cas4t
quote:Spot on. That's one of the reasons why it sucks that she discovered Amma's dollhouse. Camille was on the up and up. Which likely many other Gillian Flynn characters. They live on after the series and or book has ended. Which Camille will likely slip back into alcoholism and other destructive behavior after this discovery.
She picked the worst options the entire show. Crippling alcoholism, sleeping with the detective, cutting words into herself, moving in with her mother, sleeping with John, etc etc....her entire character and the way she fits into the show is entirely predicated on her making bad decisions. It's the reason people feel empathy for her. She has been through hell in her life, which has resulted in many bad decisions. She was never going to be the hero in the end.
The Sharp Objects subreddit has a pretty lengthy explanation of Amma's behavior. A child weaned on poison: Amma analysis
quote:
I see a lot of people speculating what Amma's motives were re: the murders and I wanted to offer my two cents, along with some evidence from the book. So, this post will include book spoilers in the form of direct quotes. Apologies in advance for the fact that this is going to be long. I think we can imagine that growing up wasn't tremendously easy for Amma. Take note of the interaction between Amma and Camille when they meet for the first time:
quote:
"Was [Marian] perfect? She was, wasn't she? [...] Mama says you were incorrigible." –– Amma, T.V.
It's obvious that Adora spoke frequently of the girls––likely, how docile, sickly, and needy Marian was, juxtaposed with how independent, bristly, and standoffish Camille was. Amma learned early that to garner Adora's attention, she had to be "Adora's little doll," as she describes to Camille, and Adora's attention is highly sought after by her daughters: "I need to stay her good girl." –– Amma, T.V.
Even Camille, who is so distant from/seems to loathe her mother, comments upon meeting Meredith (Ashley, in the show) for the first time: "She could have been Adora's child more believably than I. I could feel a grudge coming." –– Camille, book
quote:
There is something desirable about Adora. Adora is exalted in Wind Gap, and she plays incredibly clear favorites with her daughters. Amma learns to crave attention; she needs to be noticed to feel worthy. In the book, many characters note that Amma is "needy," "will shrivel up and blow away if the attention isn't always on her." So, Amma had to live up to the standard that Marian set if she wanted to be noticed by her mother, which she craved more than anything. Amma knew that her mother's love for her was completely conditional, and this is a key element to Amma's characterization/motives. Adora's love is contingent on Amma's behavior, on how pliant Amma is to Adora's whims. Additionally, Adora's love is not displayed to Amma in a traditional way; it is only shown through the way she tends to the girls. In the book, Camille reflects on all of the times she turned her mother's nursing down and sent her away, lamenting:
"Now I had a pang: all those syrups and tablets she proffered, and I rejected. That was the last time I had her full attention as a mother. I suddenly wished I'd been easier." –– Camille, book
Because of this, Amma has created an association between illness and affection. When Adora cared for Amma, Amma felt comforted:
"Amma and my mother sat on the couch, my mother cradling Amma––in a woolen nightgown, despite the heat––as she held an ice cube to her lips. My half sister stared up at me with blank contentment." –– Camille, book
"You know what my favorite part about getting wasted is? Mama takes care of me after." –– Amma, T.V.
However implicitly, Amma understood that this was the agreement: Adora sickened her, and in return, Amma received undivided love and affection. Amma thrived with this mentality. It's why she tells Camille:
"Sometimes if you let people do things to you, you're really doing it to them. [...] If someone wants to do fricked-up things to you, and you let them, you're making them more fricked up. Then you have the control. As long as you don't go crazy." –– Amma, book
"When you let them do it to you, you're really doing it to them. You have the control, and they like you." Amma, T.V.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:58 pm to Enfuego
Quote:
When Camille faked sick at the dinner table, I got an freaky vibe from Amma. Looked like she was demonically jealous that Adora was caring for Camille. Would have been wild plot twist if Amma would have tried to kill Camille.
well she kind of did. when Amma didn't run for help when Camille distracted Adora, Amma was condeming Camille to die
When Camille faked sick at the dinner table, I got an freaky vibe from Amma. Looked like she was demonically jealous that Adora was caring for Camille. Would have been wild plot twist if Amma would have tried to kill Camille.
well she kind of did. when Amma didn't run for help when Camille distracted Adora, Amma was condeming Camille to die
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:01 pm to JBeam
This isn't to your point but something I was wondering.
Was Alan not culpable in Adora's poisoning of their daughters? Or did he claim ignorance?
I remember in ep 7 or 8 when Adora was preparing some "medicine" he told her to take it easy on them. I feel like he must have known all along, especially since he cranked the music when KC came to the door so he couldn't hear if either of the daughters cried out.
But then it seemed like he was in the clear when Camille picked Amma up from the house to live with her.
Was Alan not culpable in Adora's poisoning of their daughters? Or did he claim ignorance?
I remember in ep 7 or 8 when Adora was preparing some "medicine" he told her to take it easy on them. I feel like he must have known all along, especially since he cranked the music when KC came to the door so he couldn't hear if either of the daughters cried out.
But then it seemed like he was in the clear when Camille picked Amma up from the house to live with her.
This post was edited on 8/28/18 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:03 pm to YungFO
quote:
Quote:
When Camille faked sick at the dinner table, I got an freaky vibe from Amma. Looked like she was demonically jealous that Adora was caring for Camille. Would have been wild plot twist if Amma would have tried to kill Camille.
well she kind of did. when Amma didn't run for help when Camille distracted Adora, Amma was condeming Camille to die
Amma has had pretty crazy looks the entire series. Go back to E1 when Camille says "I don't think John Keene is capable killing someone". Amma grabs a knife and seems enraged
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:05 pm to SUB
i thought the girl was trying to imitate Camille's scarring, which is why Amma got jealous and killed her.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:08 pm to BigOrangeVols
quote:I think Alan certainly knew what was going on with Adora playing doctor. I also think he played stupid throughout the process and didn't do any jail time. It's one of the reasons why I got the vibe that Amma never respected him (Go back to the time that Sheriff Vickery comes over and Alan didn't want to let him in. Amma ignores Alan by calling for Adora).
Was Alan not culpable in Adora's poisoning of their daughters? Or did he claim ignorance?
I remember in ep 7 or 8 when Adora was preparing some "medicine" he told her to take it easy on them. I feel like he must have known all along, especially since he cranked the music when KC came to the door so he couldn't hear if either of the daughters cried out.
But then it seemed like he was in the clear when Camille picked Amma up from the house to live with her.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:19 pm to YungFO
quote:Amma didn't like the fact that Mae made the comment about "wanting to be a journalist/study politics". That's when she called her a "kiss arse". I took this as Amma once again being upset with someone grabbing Camille's attention or any type of attention whatsoever.
i thought the girl was trying to imitate Camille's scarring, which is why Amma got jealous and killed her.
Something tells me that Amma told Mae about Camille's cuts and probably convinced the girl to write words on her body. She also convinced Mae to dress up like a doll, paint her nails a certain color and rollerblade.
In the book, Mae's death is a bit more graphic and specific in detail.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:28 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Fair enough. My bias has gotten in the way more than I can ever remember it being for a show.
A lot of your criticisms have been fair but the show went into great detail to show just how crazy Camille and Amma are.
You can't try to rationalize the actions of crazy people.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:45 pm to JBeam
Awesome analysis. Hopefully this helps some of the others in the thread who can't seem to understand the dynamics of these characters.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 2:59 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
My bias has gotten in the way more than I can ever remember it being for a show
I wish you'd have just said this earlier. I wouldn't have wasted my time. It's quite clear you intentionally overlooked major points in the show's plot because you wanted to hate it.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 3:51 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I love that the defenders of the show can in no way admit that camille could have went about getting adora arrested in a little better way.
Absolutely she could have, but shes not some normal, rational person by any means
Posted on 8/28/18 at 4:02 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
I’m talking about showing her committing the crimes and the look on her face. It didn’t fit the rest of the show, and was only put in the way it was to “shock” viewers so they could then get on the internet and say how amazing it was.
If Amma was portrayed as some semi-normal girl throughout the show your point would be accurate
But the entire show we see that something is seriously not right with Amma, we see her manipulate people and change personalities on a dime. These are characteristics of a sociopath, we don't really see the extent of these problems in full effect, but we know something is not right. The end credits scene was the "well, there you go, we knew she was fricked up" moment. It wasn't just some extra scene for simple shock value. The look on her face especially fit the show, she had already shown multiple faces before
Posted on 8/28/18 at 6:38 pm to JBeam
quote:Your analysis has been spot on IMO.
JBeam
I wish I had the time to reiterate a lot of what you said, but why do that anyway when you stated it so well.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 7:48 am to jg8623
quote:
But the entire show we see that something is seriously not right with Amma, we see her manipulate people and change personalities on a dime. These are characteristics of a sociopath, we don't really see the extent of these problems in full effect, but we know something is not right. The end credits scene was the "well, there you go, we knew she was fricked up" moment. It wasn't just some extra scene for simple shock value. The look on her face especially fit the show, she had already shown multiple faces before
We also find out that Amma's two friends helped her with one of the killings. Which sheds some light on their relationship if you rewatch earlier episodes (Notice how the two girls never challenge her on the comments she makes. Also, neither of them gets close with Camille)
Posted on 8/29/18 at 7:54 am to drizztiger
Saw this on reddit:
Posted on 8/29/18 at 8:50 am to JBeam
quote:
That's one of the reasons why it sucks that she discovered Amma's dollhouse. Camille was on the up and up. Which likely many other Gillian Flynn characters. They live on after the series and or book has ended. Which Camille will likely slip back into alcoholism and other destructive behavior after this discovery.
but after the girls death (Mae), which would have been linked to Amma most likely. Her wheels would have come off for sure.
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 8:53 am
Posted on 8/30/18 at 2:40 pm to Decatur
quote:
It’s not very realistic that Amma just happened to be friends with at least two like-minded psychos in little ole Wind Gap.
What was really unrealistic is that none of the 3 girls gossiped about what they did.....in a rural small town, which are gossip havens. I found the series too drawn out and plodding for what it was although I really did enjoy the last 2 episodes. Even TD1 had a few clunker episodes later on and the ending was fairly easy to figure out. I'll put it this way, I liked The Fall much better overall than SO.
Posted on 8/30/18 at 4:01 pm to cas4t
quote:
I wish you'd have just said this earlier. I wouldn't have wasted my time. It's quite clear you intentionally overlooked major points in the show's plot because you wanted to hate it.
That's not at all true. Not sure what page I first started posting in this thread but if you look back, I said I kind of liked the show. Certain things bothered me early on but I enjoyed it for a little while.
Just bc I disagree with how you view a character and their actions doesn't mean I was intentionally looking over the plot. I'm not saying it's the case with you but it can easily be said that if somebody loves a show or author then they could intentionally look over bad plot lines in the show.
I admitted that I didn't like the author early on but I no doubt kept an open mine for a time. I watched it every Sunday and talked about it with my brother every Monday and it wasnt until about episode 4 that I got frustrated with it.
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