re: Obtuse Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice TD review thread (SPOILERS p5+)

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Well, I completely disagree with this sentiment. I enjoy movies that are intellectually stimulating, and I think both MoS and BvS made me think. They approached themes far deeper than most comic films, such as religion, existentialism, political ethics, and the human suffering caused by the heroes even when trying their best to help. I have said that the story is a bit of a mess, and do wish it could have been 30 minutes longer to further flesh out the narrative.

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Cool we can disagree, you can enjoy it, but there are more people who aren't and there probably valid reasons behind that. The point about Interstellar is to use something that's not "light" yet still enjoyable. With comedies, they make us laugh so the effect is more obvious. With Interstellar or 2001 it's about purely making us think. Even without "comedy," the experience can be enjoyable.

Just because a movie has "religious" images or words (or "approaches") in it, doesn't mean it actually comments on those ideas, or makes them important, or follows through with examining them. There's a reason Crash from '2005 is lambasted now. Yes it has "themes" on racism, individualism, love, etc., but it doesn't do anything important with them. Having them, or mentioning is only the start. And you're already assuming far deeper "than most comic films," which is disingenuous, honestly, big time.

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This comes across as a glass half-full type of argument. Snyder was self-important in taking the darker liberties he did, while Nolan injected the series with gritty realism. It seems like you approached this movie with pre-conceived notions about the director's agenda and constructed a subconscious wall to deflect any form of positive reception. I respect your opinion, but you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. In your mind, Snyder was damned from the start.

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Why does every discussion come down to "pre-conceived notions," or some kind of fault of the other person? It seems the people happy with BvS constantly revert to something other than the film failing and most time the person and not the argument, but anyways.....

I'm just interpreting what Zack Snyder is giving me in film and in his comments. It "feels" like he hates comic books and Superman. I felt that in MoS, I felt that in BvS. Nolan is self-important because he isn;t successful with making the film as impactful and important as he thinks he is, or as he's stated. By saying that you're going to make some massive Shakespearian saga, you better make a massive Shakespearian saga. If you don't, or if your creation doesn't achieve those goals, then yeah, you're self-important.

Snyder is self-important because of things like this:

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I feel like he’s right. But I feel like Batman and Superman are transcendent of superhero movies in a way, because they’re Batman and Superman. They’re not just, like, the flavor of the week Ant-Man—not to be mean, but whatever it is. What is the next Blank-Man?

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I'm not preconceiving anything. And this, pre-MoS:

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“Literally, the one thing that everyone can start to think about is that we’re making a movie that finally goes with the approach that there’s been no other Superman movies,” Snyder said. “If you look at ‘Batman Begins,’ there’s that structure: there’s the canon that we know about and respect, but on other hand there’s this approach that pre-supposes that there haven’t been any other movies. In every aspect of design and of story, the whole thing is very much from that perspective of ‘Respect the canon but don’t be a slave to the movies.'”

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He went directly for the Nolan approach, while not understanding what Nolan was doing.

And this:

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“Superman is the one constant in the universe,” Snyder said. “You know that if you do Superman right — or at least if you do him with respect — you know you end up with something great. … in some ways [beyond] that is virgin territory. No one knows what that is. In some ways Superman is the most recognizable superhero on the planet but also the most unknown. Just what he can be? [b]People have preconceived ideas about him but probably all of them are wrong.”

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And this:

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To me it’s about the drama, the humanity of it. Those are like Shakespearean characters, Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, they have inherent drama built into their makeup.

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This is assinine because what is a story but drama - "an exciting, emotional, or unexpected series of events or set of circumstances." There isn't a main character in any relatively successful work of art that isn't a character with drama built into their makeup.

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It’s a tricky process, setting up the DC universe, or Justice League. The credit goes to [Batman Begins director] Chris Nolan because he set the die for the DC Universe in a great way that I tried to emulate. I look at it as more being mythological than, say, bubblegum. And I think that that’s appropriate for Batman and Superman because they’re the most mythological of our superheroes.

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And his movies follow suit with his approach. I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth. Nolan is well-lauded with crowd pleasing films and reactions because he generally succeeds at what he sets out to do (at least with BB and TDK). Snyder is labeled such because he doesn't succeed. Simple as that.

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constructed a subconscious wall to deflect any form of positive reception.

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Funny, because I specifically have pointed some of the things I like about the film. But it is not a good movie, end of story, nor did I enjoy it as a complete experience. When I say a single positive emotion, I mean it wasn't funny, thought provoking, interesting, superhero-y, dramatic, nothing. And even though it had intense looking scenes, it wasn't an intense movie because it's tough to care about any of the motivations or characters with such thin material. That's kind of the issue.

However, you're right that Snyder was damned from the start....of the movie. He told me, in the language of film, that BvS was going to do something. And it never got there. It's funny because it start's with a funeral and end's with a funeral so you'd think there'd be a nice smooth connection, but there really isn't one. (And yes, there is a notion towards funerals and the direction Bruce takes in life, but there was not a strong connection between the two.)