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re: LOTR thoughts: why is Frodo portrayed as some hero?
Posted on 1/3/18 at 9:58 am to athenslife101
Posted on 1/3/18 at 9:58 am to athenslife101
quote:And Galadriel. That scene where she faced the temptation and showed the horror of what might have happened if she took the ring when Frodo offered it to her.
Some have the foresight of refusing to deal with it (Gandalf and Aragon because they know they are susceptible)
The scene
0
Posted on 1/3/18 at 10:01 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Meh, this is far from an L.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 10:17 am to 13SaintTiger
quote:
See, more “he endured the ring!” with overlooking the fact that he didn’t give the ring up.
That is supposed to be the power of the ring. fricking Isildur had just fought a gigantic battle in which he almost died and he still refused to destroy the ring or hand it off to anyone else. You can't look at it as a ring, you have to account for the dark magic that binds the ring to it's master. Look at the Ring Wraiths; they we're the kings of men who were given rings and corrupted. Those rings weren't even as powerful as the One Ring.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 11:46 am to crispyUGA
He's not getting the actual conflict was a spiritual battle that men lost, The elves hid from, and the Dwarves didn't give a frick about.
Aragon was the redemption of man.
Gandalf was a guiding wisdom.
Galadriel was a successful ruler yet humble.
They knew they couldn't stand up to it. Galadriel even invoked she would become a new sauron in the movie. Basically it's like Michael coming down and saying hey kid, I can wield this flaming sword like a badass, but yeah that would make me Lucifer 2.0. You gotta carry that burden since you're already doing better than me.
Aragon was the redemption of man.
Gandalf was a guiding wisdom.
Galadriel was a successful ruler yet humble.
They knew they couldn't stand up to it. Galadriel even invoked she would become a new sauron in the movie. Basically it's like Michael coming down and saying hey kid, I can wield this flaming sword like a badass, but yeah that would make me Lucifer 2.0. You gotta carry that burden since you're already doing better than me.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 12:09 pm to FreddieMac
quote:Galadriel tempts herself and is able to resist.
No Sam is the hero because he and Aragon where the only two the resisted the evil of the ring completely.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 1:13 pm to ZappBrannigan
quote:
Tom was also guaranteed to leave the ring on a stump or rock and frolic away restarting the gollum cycle at best straight to sauron otherwise.
To paraphrase what Tolkien said, Tom would take it seriously for a day or two, get bored, forget about it, about then toss it into a river or something.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:10 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
Frodo held it for 18 years.
FIFY.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:46 pm to ZappBrannigan
quote:
He's not getting the actual conflict was a spiritual battle that men lost, The elves hid from, and the Dwarves didn't give a frick about.
Once again, in the end Frodo walks away with the ring if Sméagol didn’t bite his finger off. You all keep emphasizing the conflict and hardship the ring bestows and conveniently leave out how Frodo gave in. At what point did he give in? No one knows, but it started way before him and Sméagol fighting at Mordor. It’s just shown at modor because that was his real first ultimatum.
Sam saved Frodo’s arse and saved the world countless times. I can name more heroic instances for Sam than I can for Frodo. All you can say is Frodo carries the ring and succumbed to its power. And that ring doesn’t make it anywhere near Modor if not for Sam.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:51 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Once again, in the end Frodo walks away with the ring if Sméagol didn’t bite his finger off. You all keep emphasizing the conflict and hardship the ring bestows and conveniently leave out how Frodo gave in. At what point did he give in? No one knows, but it started way before him and Sméagol fighting at Mordor. It’s just shown at modor because that was his real first ultimatum.
Sam saved Frodo’s arse and saved the world countless times. I can name more heroic instances for Sam than I can for Frodo. All you can say is Frodo carries the ring and succumbed to its power. And that ring doesn’t make it anywhere near Modor if not for Sam.
You're still at this?
This board heard the call and has dominated your shite take.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 2:58 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Sam saved Frodo’s arse and saved the world countless times. I can name more heroic instances for Sam than I can for Frodo. All you can say is Frodo carries the ring and succumbed to its power. And that ring doesn’t make it anywhere near Modor if not for Sam.
One could argue that Frodo was the carrier and Sam was the spirit. It was only a matter of time before Frodo would fall to the ring's power. Sam was Frodo's way to keep in the here and now. If it were just Sam, without Frodo, Sam would have fallen to the evil of the ring. It takes two baby.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:16 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
that ring doesn’t make it anywhere near Modor if not for Sam
That ring doesn't get close to Mordor without many of the characters in Lord of the Rings. So by your logic, everyone else is a hero, Frodo is a selfish POS.
I initially recommended that you take the L, but you continuing to helplessly argue is more entertaining. I rescind my earlier comment.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:16 pm to FreddieMac
quote:It's obvious to most. Frodo had the more difficult task, but Sam was invaluable to the journey's success. Frodo was a badass. Sam was a badass.
It takes two baby.
ETA: Also, Book Frodo is much better than Movie Frodo.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:25 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
That ring doesn't get close to Mordor without many of the characters in Lord of the Rings. So by your logic, everyone else is a hero,
No, because the parameter of my argument start and end with Sam and Frodo. Feel free to start a thread on who you think the hero is. All I’m saying is the movie portrays Sam as second fiddle when in fact he is the hero imho. This is confirmed by the responses I’ve been getting from you all only able to say “Frodo carried the ring though”
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:26 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:Sam is second fiddle. But he is also a hero.
No, because the parameter of my argument start and end with Sam and Frodo. Feel free to start a thread on who you think the hero is. All I’m saying is the movie portrays Sam as second fiddle when in fact he is the hero imho. This is confirmed by the responses I’ve been getting from you all only able to say “Frodo carried the ring though”
You might want to sit down for this... Frodo and Sam are both heroes.
Frodo had the more difficult task; Sam was crucial to keeping Frodo sane and moving forward.
This post was edited on 1/3/18 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:28 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
13SaintTiger
I don't know quite what to make of you. You bring up an interesting take and have prompted some good discussion. But you keep seeming to want to revert to childish insults and trolling.
If not for the post count and members since date in your profile, I would think you were a really young poster who had the potential to mature into a real contributor to the site.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:33 pm to Methuselah
quote:
But you keep seeming to want to revert to childish insults
I said nerds in one of my posts, whoops
quote:
I would think you were a really young poster who had the potential to mature into a real contributor to the site.
Talk about insulting.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:35 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Frodo and Sam are both heroes.
Can you explain some of the heroic acts committed by Frodo? If you say “he carried the ring” my response is that he also didn’t give it up and succumbed to its power.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:52 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Can you explain some of the heroic acts committed by Frodo?
His heroic act came at the Council of Elrond when he volunteered to be the ring barrer. He basically volunteered to die for the good of all at that point. Pretty damn heroic.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:52 pm to 13SaintTiger
Again, you're looking at this the wrong way. The heroic act that Frodo made (or did not make) was not what he failed to do at the Cracks of Doom. It was the choice he made at the Council of Elrond in Rivendell. There, he was told that: a) the Ring he carried contained most of the power of Sauron, the most powerful and evil being in Middle Earth at the time, and that it wanted to be found by Sauron as surely and strongly as Sauron wanted to find it; b) that, given time, it was absolutely assured to corrupt him and turn him into something similar to Gollum; c) that the only hope for the free peoples was to take the Ring to be destroyed at the Cracks of Doom, which was the very seat of the aforementioned Sauron; and d) that the quest to destroy the Ring was so hopeless that it really didn't matter who accepted it or who chose to accompany them, because no one could realistically be expected to carry it out. And still, given all of that, he freely chose to bear the Ring to Mordor. That choice was one he made of himself, while he still had control of his own will. The "choice" to seize the Ring at the Cracks of Doom was one he made while under the power of the Ring itself.
Posted on 1/3/18 at 3:59 pm to TheTideMustRoll
Well said.
When OP brushes off the soul crushing duty of bearing the ring across unknown, hostile territory to the doorstep of the most powerful individual in Middle Earth, all the while being hounded by wraiths and other murderous shite, and says "yeah but what else has he done", I tend to think we're dealing with a troll.
When OP brushes off the soul crushing duty of bearing the ring across unknown, hostile territory to the doorstep of the most powerful individual in Middle Earth, all the while being hounded by wraiths and other murderous shite, and says "yeah but what else has he done", I tend to think we're dealing with a troll.
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