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Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:08 am to Tiger Ryno
With all the money Disney has...WTF
How hard is it to make a clone of Kevin Feige that is programmed to love Star Wars.
How hard is it to make a clone of Kevin Feige that is programmed to love Star Wars.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:17 am to partywiththelombardi
Part of the problem is that no one seems capable of objectively discussing the problems with the movies without it degrading into an accusation of an attack on the gender/race of the people involved.
The other part of the problem is that no one seems capable of objectively discussing the merits of the movies without it degrading into accusations of SJW pandering and such.
So pretty much every debate devolves into, instead of a discussion of the merits and problems of the movies, someone screaming "sexist" or "racist" at a person who is screaming "SJW" back at them.
Not to mention the toxicity of the fanbase - the amount of bile and venom thrown towards Kelly Marie Tran (and before her Jake Lloyd) for doing their jobs - doesn't help the argument. It's hard to objectively discuss the problems of a movie when a person who also disliked the movie is flooding an actress' Instagram page with things like, "I hope you die in a fire."
I swear the internet was the best and worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars.
The other part of the problem is that no one seems capable of objectively discussing the merits of the movies without it degrading into accusations of SJW pandering and such.
So pretty much every debate devolves into, instead of a discussion of the merits and problems of the movies, someone screaming "sexist" or "racist" at a person who is screaming "SJW" back at them.
Not to mention the toxicity of the fanbase - the amount of bile and venom thrown towards Kelly Marie Tran (and before her Jake Lloyd) for doing their jobs - doesn't help the argument. It's hard to objectively discuss the problems of a movie when a person who also disliked the movie is flooding an actress' Instagram page with things like, "I hope you die in a fire."
I swear the internet was the best and worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:28 am to pevetohead
quote:
The devil may work hard, but Mickey Mouse works harder
Holy shite, that's funny (and close to the truth).
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:29 am to Argonaut
quote:
LINK
quote:
Rumors surfaced this week that Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy might step down from company leadership in the aftermath of Solo: A Star Wars Story's box office failure. This comes amid rampaging racism, sexism, and other extreme toxic behavior from a segment of mostly male (and mostly white) fans who've taken to harassing female actors and artists for existing. This is all part of a larger bigoted backlash of complaints against Star Wars for incorporating people of color and other types of diversity into the previously predominantly white male storytelling.
yea, I've read enough of that article.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:38 am to League Champs
quote:
It will absolutely kill their theme park makeover in Florida, if they don't. Not to mention the shelving of future film projects
Ehh I don’t know about all that for every hard core fan there is someone with 2-3 kids like me who will go because the kids think it’s awesome.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:39 am to skrayper
quote:
The other part of the problem is that no one seems capable of objectively discussing the merits of the movies without it degrading into accusations of SJW pandering and such.
Well, if in this argument the only merits being touted are that they shoehorned in new characters for the sake of checking off boxes on a diversity checklist, one side has a clear advantage.
Otherwise...what are the "merits" of "The Last Jedi," outside of the visuals and one fight scene?
Just because you add/force diversity doesn't make something better. No one would complain if these characters were well written, regardless of sex or race of the actor.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:43 am to Argonaut
quote:
LINK
This article is an example of why there is so much backlash against the Star Wars franchise. It assumes that we, as fans, are dumb; That we don't get the imagery of the series. Yes, the Empire was based on Nazis.
There's a difference between making a subtle allusion to something - something that just about anyone can recognize and say "Yeah, those are the bad guys" - and ham-handedly force feeding the audience your social justice views.
But keep on insulting us. We'll keep talking with our wallets.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:44 am to Sasquatch Smash
“Not my Luke Skywalker” says Mark Hamil. Enough said.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:45 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Kathleen Kennedy is why I'm boycotting it. The direction she wants to take the Star Wars franchise is toxic with SJW bull shite and nothing but spinoffs. She needs to fricking go (along with Johnson).
Ditto to that.
I probably would've seen Solo in theaters, but the smug and obtuse public reactions Kennedy and Johnson made were just insufferable after TLJ. The only way to crack the group think funnel they have is to affect the bottom line.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:52 am to TigerFanatic99
quote:He starts off the article with this as if it was a huge thing... then says it meant nothing to the actual box office:
This is all part of a larger bigoted backlash of complaints against Star Wars for incorporating people of color and other types of diversity into the previously predominantly white male storytelling.
quote:
While those racist and sexist reactionary fans probably did boycott a couple of the movies in theaters, they are too small and insignificant a part of the overall theatrical audience to make any real difference, and they certainly didn't cause the failure or underperformance of any new Star Wars movies, however much they posture and pretend otherwise.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:56 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Otherwise...what are the "merits" of "The Last Jedi," outside of the visuals and one fight scene?
Off the top of my head?
The tied-together theme uttered by Yoda (the theme of learning from your failures - of which each character, save Kylo Ren, does)
The ORIGINAL (before the casino scene) concept behind Rose. Her sister's death, then seeing a hero of hers attempt to leave. Her arc had potential until the writers took them down the path of the Casino visit followed by the very odd romantic kiss near the end.
Some (though not most) of Luke's interactions. He had potential, and using a power to project himself across the Galaxy in a way that fooled another Force user was impressive. The suns during his death scene was a nice call back to how you are first introduced to him.
You're right, though, the visuals are the strongest part of the movie. Some of the humor is good, other times misses the mark.
I did like that they turned some of the tropes on their ears.
I'm not saying TLJ is a "good" movie, at least by Star Wars standards. I think it would have been a better movie if these characters were not part of a bigger universe that we felt we already knew.
It's not uncommon for writers to turn everything pre-established on itself, which can be vastly annoying (like how in the Thor comics Mjolnir was destroyed by the Sun).
You're right that forcing diversity for diversity's sake without a thought to writing will lead to a bad movie. There was a small (yet vocal) minority who complained about a female lead in Rogue One. So sometimes, if you have valid criticism, part of the thing you have to do is make sure your critique doesn't sound like a copy/paste of the same people who called Rogue One a movie for feminist pandering.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:57 am to LSUFreek
quote:
YT movie critics Kristian Harloff and Grace Randolph made compelling arguments that Kennedy probably shouldn't be totally removed from producing (multiple multi-billion dollar results and behind-the-scenes problem solver ex: Rogue One/Solo director issues that avoided becoming cinematic disasters)
Kristian Harloff has a weekly show where he sucks off Star Wars really no matter what. Kathleen Kennedy could make “A Serbian Film” set in the Star Wars Universe, but so long as it has an AT-ST and a lightsaber, he’ll say it was the best Star Wars movie ever. Disney continually sends minor cast members to be interviewed by him as well as merchandise. He has an entry on Wookiepedia for god’s sake. He might have the least credibility of any critic when it comes to being objective on Star Wars. You would be a fool to trust anything he has to say about Star Wars.
Grace Randolph is a hack who is far too aligned with the studios. She’s not as bad as Kristian, but she found pretty much everything we hated about it to be a good thing, save for the atrocious pacing. I’m still stunned that Kennedy signed off on that garbage script.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 9:58 am to ell_13
quote:
By quoting the article, I obviously didn't read it? Another dumbass conclusion from Alternaut.
It’s really not worth engaging with GCA. He reads multiple film sites.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 10:00 am to BlueWaffleHouse
From that lefty rag, Forbes:
LINK
I think this is not only the right read, it will be the dominant narrative. The films have been successful, and Disney is going to make bank on Star Wars Land opening in the WDW parks. They are printing money here, especially when you consider the spinoffs of the movie in merchandising, video games, and other mediums.
But the fact a bunch of angry fans boycotted the Star Wars film headlined by a white dude and had the most conservative, throwback story of the new films was just an insanely poor strategy. A look at the performance of the movies shows that the diversely cast movies perform better, particularly overseas. You're going to see more of it, most likely, not less. The new fans are more than capable of replacing the old fans, especially if the old fans aren't going to support things clearly aimed at them like SOLO. Instead of not making diverse films, they are simply not going to throw old fan boys any more sops. That's the money loser.
LINK
quote:
Yes, Solo: A Star Wars Story was an under-$400 million bomb. But, putting aside the ironic “first new Star Wars movie starring a white guy flops” thing, the franchise is still flying high. You say Kathleen Kennedy is “ruining Star Wars,” her first four Star Wars movies she produced for Disney earned majority-positive reviews, straight-A CinemaScore grades and a combined $4.775 billion worldwide on a combined production and marketing cost of around $1.6b. Her first four Star Wars movies (Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi and Solo) have averaged $1.2b worldwide. That’s the biggest “average” gross for any franchise ever, even considering inflation, overseas expansion and 3D/IMAX/D-Box bumps.
The first five MCU movies (Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor and Captain America) earned $2.3 billion total on a combined budget of around $780 million. That averages out to $458m per movie. Even if, however unlikely, Star Wars 9 drops like Jurassic Park III (compared to The Lost World), it’s still looking at a $490m domestic and $785m worldwide cume (yes, JP3 sank 51% overseas). Even a $785m-grossing Star Wars 9 would still give the first five Star Wars movies a $5.5b combined cume on a guesstimated $2b production + marketing budget. That’ll still average out to $1.1b per movie.
quote:
Lucasfilm demoting or firing one of the most powerful female producers in Hollywood after four straight $1 billion+ grossers with female leads after one male-led flop (which, we should note, was greenlit by Disney’s Bob Iger) and replacing her with a dude, even Dave Filoni, would be a horrible look. I love Star Wars: Rebels too, but, well, ick. It would also be a sign of desperation from a company that has no cause to panic. The notion that Star Wars is doomed stems from one box office disappointment and one huge hit whose post-release narrative to be defined partially by online trolls and toxic fans.
I think this is not only the right read, it will be the dominant narrative. The films have been successful, and Disney is going to make bank on Star Wars Land opening in the WDW parks. They are printing money here, especially when you consider the spinoffs of the movie in merchandising, video games, and other mediums.
But the fact a bunch of angry fans boycotted the Star Wars film headlined by a white dude and had the most conservative, throwback story of the new films was just an insanely poor strategy. A look at the performance of the movies shows that the diversely cast movies perform better, particularly overseas. You're going to see more of it, most likely, not less. The new fans are more than capable of replacing the old fans, especially if the old fans aren't going to support things clearly aimed at them like SOLO. Instead of not making diverse films, they are simply not going to throw old fan boys any more sops. That's the money loser.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 10:06 am to skrayper
quote:This isn't a theme. It's a cliche.
The tied-together theme uttered by Yoda (the theme of learning from your failures - of which each character, save Kylo Ren, does)
quote:You are literally using a fault as a merit. Either Rose is a good character or she isn't. You obviously admit she's not.
The ORIGINAL (before the casino scene) concept behind Rose.
quote:Again, you are using potential as a merit with a character. The projection was cool and had potential, yes. The death itself in a vacuum was good although the how and when make no sense.
Some (though not most) of Luke's interactions. He had potential, and using a power to project himself across the Galaxy in a way that fooled another Force user was impressive. The suns during his death scene was a nice call back to how you are first introduced to him.
quote:Agreed.
You're right, though, the visuals are the strongest part of the movie.
quote:They thought it was done for SJW's sake. They were totally wrong. The father-daughter relationship was a key point in the plot and a good contrast to the father-son relationship we've gotten elsewhere in Star Wars.
You're right that forcing diversity for diversity's sake without a thought to writing will lead to a bad movie. There was a small (yet vocal) minority who complained about a female lead in Rogue One.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 10:07 am to Baloo
quote:
A look at the performance of the movies shows that the diversely cast movies perform better, particularly overseas.
Let's cut the bullshite here. This is the most successful franchise in cinematic history. Of course TFA was going to make a shite load of money because we never thought it would return, the director was someone everyone liked and they knew wouldn't frick it up, and it had likable characters both new and old. RO was a non-risk taking film that played it safe, but also showed that we could have different type of stories in the Star Wars universe.
Then comes TLJ. A lot of fans were giving Disney the benefit of the doubt. Then they saw it and it underperformed by at least $300 million. The fans felt like they were sucker punched by it, so we said "frick it, this movie made way too much money, so not going to see Solo to send a message." I think strategy is working and I'm simply thrilled by it.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 10:08 am to Baloo
quote:
narrative to be defined partially by online trolls and toxic fans.
I think what upsets people is being called a troll for not liking TLJ. The SJW stuff didn't bother me, I just thought the film was dumb and boring. Mary Poppins Leai, and Luke throwing the ligtsaber over his shoulder were head scratching scenes.
Posted on 6/11/18 at 10:10 am to RLDSC FAN
quote:The prank call was just as bad.
Mary Poppins Leai, and Luke throwing the ligtsaber over his shoulder were head scratching scenes.
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