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re: Is Joffrey Baratheon the most despicable character ever written?
Posted on 4/23/12 at 11:40 pm to St Augustine
Posted on 4/23/12 at 11:40 pm to St Augustine
quote:
renly, stannis
He created this in much the same way Aegon IV created the Blackfyre rebellion Aegon gave his bastard Bittersteel the Targaryen family weapon, blackfyre, instead of his true born son Daeron II. When Robert gave Renly Storm's End, the baratheon family seat he gave Renly reason to believe that he had a higher claim to the throne than Stannis.
quote:
Joffrey, rob
We've danced to these two songs too many times tonight
quote:
and the iron born
He is innocent of this one this one was Robb's fault
0
Posted on 4/24/12 at 12:08 am to Tom288
quote:
I suppose it was also Robert that made Cersei abuse Tyrion when he was an infant? Robert may no be Father/Husband of the Year, but to suggest that he is responsible for Cersei and Joffrey being who they are is laughable.
He's got a lot of the blame. If he merely loved his wife and treated her well, she wouldn't have become the bitter bitch she is today, and she certainly wouldn't have had the hellspawn Joffrey.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 12:13 am to OMLandshark
She was already in love with Jamie.
But also she has said that she at one point loved Robert, but he never loved her.
But also she has said that she at one point loved Robert, but he never loved her.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 12:14 am to Dire Wolf
quote:
But they were not Robert kids. I feel like he had to have known if two kings hands figured it.
Robert hates the Lannisters, so if he had any hint of what the frick was going on behind his back, he'd kill them all, including Tomen and Mrycella.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 2:24 am to Napoleon
She never loved Robert. She loved Rhaegar, even over Jaime.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 2:41 am to NIH
quote:
She never loved Robert. She loved Rhaegar, even over Jaime.
Well, she did until the night after their wedding when he whispered Liana's name in her ear.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 2:44 am to OMLandshark
I believe that was only on the show. I could be wrong but in the text she pretty much despised him from the start. She kind of saw him as a consolation prize to Rhaegar. And unlike Jaime, she never really had any illusions of them being together.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 5:07 am to NIH
quote:
I believe that was only on the show. I could be wrong but in the text she pretty much despised him from the start. She kind of saw him as a consolation prize to Rhaegar. And unlike Jaime, she never really had any illusions of them being together.
Partially true. She never had any feelings for him, and was still with Jamie even up to her marriage to Robert. But she was willing to give it a shot up until he said Lyanna's name while drunk. At which point she hated him and didn't everything she could to make his life miserable, including terminating the only pregnancy she knew was his.
somewhat spoilerish for Cersei points of view.....
Of course with all this you are basically taking the word of a known liar in Cersei. We've seen tons of her own POV in AFFC and ADWD, and to say her point of view is a skewed version of reality is putting it mildly. She's nutty as a fruitcake.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 7:32 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If he merely loved his wife and treated her well, she wouldn't have become the bitter bitch she is today, and she certainly wouldn't have had the hellspawn Joffrey.
Way off.
Cersi never loved Robert. It was an arranged marriage for political purposes. She always loved Jaime and had been fricking Jaime for years prior to marrying Robert.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 7:34 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I feel like he had to have known if two kings hands figured it.
You guys really gloss over this.
Jon Arryn was the only one to find out and that was after years of being the Hand. Ned only found out because he started investigating Jon's death and Varys pointed him to the work being done by Arryn before he died.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 7:38 am to auyushu
Correct on both accounts. She never loved Robert but was willing to at least try. Take that w a grain of salt tho because nothing she says is wholeheartedly true.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:25 am to NIH
quote:
I just read AFFC and in one of Cersei's last POVs she mentions how Robert used to force himself on her early on in the marriage. She would be bruised and what not in the morning and Robert would always deny it.
This is from page 8 but I wanted to interject. I do not believe we can trust POV's as if they are equal to an omniscient narrator. Simply because Cersei said it doesn't mean it is true.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 8:27 am to OMLandshark
quote:
He's got a lot of the blame. If he merely loved his wife and treated her well, she wouldn't have become the bitter bitch she is today, and she certainly wouldn't have had the hellspawn Joffrey.
dude she was fricking Jaime LONG before this
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:10 am to OMLandshark
Joffrey is despicable, to be sure, but his character is not as interesting as it should be because it's too one-dimensional. The really great villains of literature and moviedom are more inscrutable and craftier. Of course, Joffrey is only a teenager but he should have been written with a bit more intelligence. Compare him, for example, to John Hurt's Caligula in "I, Claudius".... Caligula would eat Joffrey for lunch.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:13 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If he merely loved his wife and treated her well, she wouldn't have become the bitter bitch she is today, and she certainly wouldn't have had the hellspawn Joffrey.
Funny how viewers here are analyzing them as though they're real people. Here's the deal: there's no correct answer for why Joffrey is a devil except that the author wrote him that way. Save the psychoanalysis for real historical characters like Claudius, Livia, and Caligula.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:17 am to Rex
I was about to post this, ultimately Joffery is the way he is because GRMM wanted him to be that way. He is the way he is in the show because the producers thought he should be that way. End of story.
Its like asking someone how do you properly kill a vampire.
It doesn't matter because they aren't real.
Its like asking someone how do you properly kill a vampire.
It doesn't matter because they aren't real.
This post was edited on 4/24/12 at 9:18 am
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:20 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
It doesn't matter because they aren't real.
Abraham Lincoln disagrees
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:27 am to St Augustine
quote:
Abraham Lincoln disagrees
As a history major I can tell you that the movie about Abraham Lincoln being a vampire hunter is not factual. The fact that you think this shows how ignorant you truly are. Nearly all historians agree that Adam Lincoln, Abe's identical twin brother was the actual vampire killer.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:38 am to Rex
quote:
Funny how viewers here are analyzing them as though they're real people. Here's the deal: there's no correct answer for why Joffrey is a devil except that the author wrote him that way.
To be fair, TV Joffery is different than book Joffery.
Posted on 4/24/12 at 9:38 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Robert hates the Lannisters
But if only he had loved Cersei...
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